Completing From the Small Blind- Deceptive Odds

[Nietzsche]

Thank you to Frank Jerome for finally highlighting this.

I've always thought it was a little funny to hear limit players (even good ones) reason preflop that "pot odds dictate that I defend in this spot" (from the sb or bb). It is as if they look up hands in poker stove to see the equity hu if both went all in preflop. But leaving position and implied reverse odds out of the equation is simply crazy.

When I hear good teaching pros reason along these lines I cannot help but think poker is still in its very early stages.

[Niediam]

You must really hate the new 2+2 limit hold'em book. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[jfk]

Frank Jerome's articles are my starting point each month and are often the highlight of the magazine. He makes a simple point that isn't addressed often and he illustrates it very well.

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You must really hate the new 2+2 limit hold'em book

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It may take 250k hands before that determination can be made. Peter Rus' (similar) advice kicked me in the teeth for a while until backing off of it a bit. Its the curse of very thin edges.

[Nietzsche]

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You must really hate the new 2+2 limit hold'em book. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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Stox is so clear sighted in just about everything he writes. That is why I am really surprised he can think along these lines.

[stoxtrader]

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You must really hate the new 2+2 limit hold'em book. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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Stox is so clear sighted in just about everything he writes. That is why I am really surprised he can think along these lines.

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I'm not aware of any spots where we use pot odds ALONE to determine anything really.... i could be wrong though - please point it out.

[Phat Mack]

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You must really hate the new 2+2 limit hold'em book. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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Stox is so clear sighted in just about everything he writes. That is why I am really surprised he can think along these lines.

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I'm not aware of any spots where we use pot odds ALONE to determine anything really.... i could be wrong though - please point it out.

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Could you provide a summary of your position for those of us trying to follow this discussion?

[Buzz]

Nietzsche - I remember the feeling I had once while walking on campus with several outstanding instructors for whom I had enormous respect. I somehow felt proud to be included with them. And that is how I feel about being included as a contributor to the 2+2 magazine. I am in awe, purely in awe of the writings of some of my fellow contributors.

Positive affirmation is important for those who struggle to present their thoughts.

Thank you very much for your positive assessment of my article.

Frank Jerome

[Buzz]

jfk - My mind skips around. Thoughts float into my consciousness, seemingly from nowhere, but probably actually from some depth within my brain. Writing forces me to focus my thoughts. Sometimes by writing, I learn what I think and perhaps see the truth.

I’m not naturally a writer. Perfect phrasing seems to easily flow from some individuals, whereas I struggle for the right words. However, number logic comes to me more easily than words, and that insight is what I try to share. I’m not a mathematician, just someone interested in applied math.

I have always wondered what people think - what they really think. Paradoxically, poker, a game of deception, leads itself to this curiosity.

And it all comes together for me in the game of Omaha-8, which has become my hobby.

At any rate, thank you for your words of support. You absolutely made my day.

Frank Jerome

[Nietzsche]

Stox, I am pretty positive I heard you mention this in a video with no follow-up about postflop play. But of course this may be simply due to not having enough time before new developments needed commenting. I thought I also had read it in your book but looking for it now I see on page 89 that you state that the biggest factor in decding what to play in the sb is determined by how your opponent plays postflop.

Anyway, I see the pot odds argument (with no regards to postflop play) again and again in forums and I thought it was about time someone mentioned it.

Congrats on a great book btw, Stox. The last 4 pages alone are worth the cost of the entire book. I especially like your idea of storing hands where you are on the lucky end of a suck out to counter tilt in the future.

[stoxtrader]

thanks for the remarks, referring to pot odds in a video I made (I have made a lot), I think would not constitute ignoring other factors.

We have a section I beleive on this topic (completing the SB in a multiway pot), and we speak extensively to the implied odds of the situation.