Flop decision

CruS · #1 10-11-2007, 11:43 AM

Villain is 20/17 and seems pretty good, solid TAG.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Full Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button ($12.15)
SB ($26.15)
BB ($25)
UTG ($25.80)
MP ($19.90)
Hero ($28.60)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises to $0.85, 1 fold, SB calls $0.75, BB calls $0.60.

Flop: ($2.55) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB bets $2.2

What is ABC here?

Logun · #2 10-11-2007, 12:04 PM

I like a smooth call here, if they d-barrel it then you most likely need to improve your hand and can decide on the turn what you want to do from there.

thac · #3 10-11-2007, 12:05 PM

Yeah, smooth-call is pretty standard. If you raise, it's unlikely that A8 is gonna shove over the top of you, and you could be good right now but when you raise he stops bluffing.

Aceium · #4 10-11-2007, 12:09 PM

Since your read on villan is that he is solid TAG, his donk bet here probably indicates more strength than it would coming from another player. I would not be convinced that you have the best hand, but you certainly have a powerful draw. If you are ahead, you are way ahead, and if you are behind, you should have 12 outs to improve.

I think a flat call here is ok. I don't think a raise here is best because if you do he may come over the top of you and you have to dump your hand. Also, if you are ahead of him you are not going to get many worse hands to call you. You may lose some action if you bet on a turn or river club, but it's better than betting yourself off your hand.

kurto · #5 10-11-2007, 12:10 PM

If you are behind, the worst case scenario you have just under 30% equity.... If he has a better ace or two pair, you have 45% equity. Add in that he could be doing this with draws and your equity shoots up as high as 80%.

You have a monster draw. I don't see why we can't get it in now when we have the most equity. If he's a good tag, he may not pay you off if the flush gets there anyways....

You're No Daisy · #6 10-11-2007, 12:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, smooth-call is pretty standard. If you raise, it's unlikely that A8 is gonna shove over the top of you, and you could be good right now but when you raise he stops bluffing.

[/ QUOTE ]
Is a solid TAG really gonna call a raise with A8 from the BB and be OOP with a dry Ace the rest of the hand? I don't think so. If we put villian on an Ace wouldn't AJ-AK be more in his range? After all he donk bet the flop with almost a PSB. I would call here too. But why is this standard? Wouldn't we sometimes mix it up with a raise?

AC

thac · #7 10-11-2007, 12:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, smooth-call is pretty standard. If you raise, it's unlikely that A8 is gonna shove over the top of you, and you could be good right now but when you raise he stops bluffing.

[/ QUOTE ]
Is a solid TAG really gonna call a raise with A8 from the BB and be OOP with a dry Ace the rest of the hand? I don't think so. If we put villian on an Ace wouldn't AJ-AK be more in his range? After all he donk bet the flop with almost a PSB. I would call here too. But why is this standard? Wouldn't we sometimes mix it up with a raise?

AC

[/ QUOTE ]

That's what I'm saying, if we raise, he's not gonna have A8. He's gonna have a higher ace or a set or 2 pair.

You're No Daisy · #8 10-11-2007, 12:27 PM

I agree with kurto here. Why is a smooth call standard. As I mentioned before this might be AJ-AK. I guess it's possible he could have a suited Ace (not clubs obviously) or a suited connector. But isn't the value in our hand the fold equity. We have a big draw here. What's the best option, raising or shoving? I don't know. I tend to raise in situations like this and I don't mind shoving either because of the fold equity we have.

AC

thac · #9 10-11-2007, 12:30 PM

We don't really have a big draw.. if we had A8c on a Tc8s4c, we have a big draw because we have an 8 or an ace as an out. Here, we have an 8 (if he doesn't have a set).. and if he has an ace we don't really have much fold equity because most TAGs bet to bet/3bet all-in, as opposed to bet-fold.

You're No Daisy · #10 10-11-2007, 12:31 PM

My bad...I read your response as villain is holding A8. So basically, you like the smooth call to induce a bluff?

AC