Beat: Absolute is *actually* rigged (serious) (read me)

[Oki-Oki]

I really doubt this thread is going to have any effect on AP or online poker in general, 99%+ of ppl who play online will never hear of this issue. Just look at the thread linked from the ITH forums. That whole issue was raised in 2006 and almost no-one hear had ever heard of it.

I 100% agree that there is something shady going on but you all have to realise that nothing will come from this. AP will flat out deny it and maybe most of 2+2 will boycott AP. Then the games get super soft and ppl drift back. This issue will never filter down into the mainstream media, I doubt highly doubt it reaches the mainstream poker media ie cardplayer, pokernews etc. The most press this issue will ever get is on something like the rounders podcast etc. I'm not defending AP in anyway, I agree that this looks very bad and sets a dangerous precedent. But I dont think anyone believes that this is a widespread problem across multiple major sites. But its disturbing for alot of us to hear that something like this is even possible.

All the posts claiming if this is true "then someone needs to go to jail", comon grow up. Look how difficult it is for the US justice dept to prosecute a US citizen for e-crime/fraud, let alone a buisness based overseas.

What ever happend to ppl's money from pokerspot? Yeah that got alot of attention in mainstream press and ppl went to jail there. NOT.

The whole multiaccounting and zeejustin affair got alot of press on these boards. Ppl where predicting the end of online poker, did it happen? Of course not.

What about the UIEGA, almost everyone was convinced that online poker would dissapear overnight, has it? Again no.

It just seems that everytime there is a controversy or scandal in online poker, posters on this board think the sky is falling.

I'm not saying its a good thing or that its justified but imo nothing is going to come of this. In two weeks everyone will have forgotten about it and moved onto the next thing.

[Michael Davis]

" I doubt highly doubt it reaches the mainstream poker media ie cardplayer, pokernews etc."

How much can we bet?

-Michael

[Oki-Oki]

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well, until this is settled why dont we just post about it in the most popular 2p2 forums? hopefully p5s and the other sites will start talking about this too. we can all tell our friends and they can tell their friends. lets get the word out quick - some online poker players can see your cards. hopefully people will get scared to play online. then, we can finally get some nice layovers in donkaments m i rite???

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imo this thread should be deleted / in mod forum

its pretty much 100% that he cheats, we dont really need much more evidence. this is just going to cause gossip and get ppl scared n stuff

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I think adanthar made a big mistake by making this a public thread. People who got affected should discuss this situation privatly.

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As long as Adanthar is 100% sure there is cheating going on this is the correct move. If there is actually these superaccounts on AP there has to be more speculation about it around the internet and lot of more people who are affected by it then just couple 2+2ers. So when he posts the thread here all the info gets posted and people get better picture of the whole situation.

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I can see that it will make people come forward and speed up the investigation. But I am afraid that if this will go public, the damage will be enormous.

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This wont happen and even in the remote chance it does, it should have a very small effect on sites apart from AP. The big "trusted" sites such as stars etc will handle this very professionaly and clarify their procedures through email to players, most of whom wont know whats going on anyway.

[LuckyLloyd]

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I was hit pretty hard by this (well into 5 figs vs graycat+doubledrag). I want to know if there is any legal recourse if Absolute Poker doesn't return our funds?

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I would suggest that this forum (noting that some fine posters are driving this thread) is not the best place to seek legal advice.

Infact, maybe this is something the mods should think about at this point?

- So far we have been shown some damning circumstantial evidence by Adanthar;
- It appears to me that there may be more in the thread moved to the mod forum - aswell as the spark that set the suspicions off in the first place;
- Many players may have lost money to these accounts;
- Those players may find, upon a review of their hands in sessions vs those accounts that they were owned a bit harder than is really possible;
- They'll wonder: "what the [censored] do I do to get my money back?"


As such, the question is as to whether 2 + 2 would want to aid and facilitate the sharing of evidence and information pertinent to these accusations - with the intention of furnishing a joint submission to AP / a joint submission to AP via a lawyer.

There are obvious implications for 2 + 2 if they were seen to do this - and it would be understandable if the likes of Malmouth and Sklansky decide to make this subject off topic in the coming days.

Additionally, there would also be the valid question of whether players effected would be comfortable handing over HH's of their sessions to the likes of Adanthar (or whoever) - because it is essentially turning over a solid indication of how you play poker to a pretty good poker player who could use this information against you (and beat you the old fashioned way with it). And, on the other end, there would be the question of who would be willing to trawl through such supposed evidence (because there would surely be a flood of irrelevant [censored] thrown at you if you opened the gates - lolz AA cracked, poker is rigged, etc) and decide what is damning and what is not - before it is added to the pile of mathamatically unexplainable behaviour on absolute.

Does 2 + 2 feel any responsibillity to help expose Absolute if this is real?

Maybe I'm jumping the gun a little? Maybe this is a huge level; or we are just, you know - wrong. But Adanthar and Ikestoys come across on these forums as intelligent and reasonable people - and this thread wasn't started on April 1.

I guess if I had lost a significant amount of money to these accounts and found damning evidence in pokertracker I would certaintly be considering contacting my lawyer for a chat.

[KSOT]

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I really doubt this thread is going to have any effect on AP or online poker in general, 99%+ of ppl who play online will never hear of this issue. Just look at the thread linked from the ITH forums. That whole issue was raised in 2006 and almost no-one hear had ever heard of it.

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I'm not saying you're wrong because I have no idea, but the ITH thread was literally nothing more than hearsay. This thread is packed with actual evidence and the userbase here is larger and more likely to matter to AP.

[ski]

So sick. GG Absolute.

[Oki-Oki]

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I really doubt this thread is going to have any effect on AP or online poker in general, 99%+ of ppl who play online will never hear of this issue. Just look at the thread linked from the ITH forums. That whole issue was raised in 2006 and almost no-one hear had ever heard of it.

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I'm not saying you're wrong because I have no idea, but the ITH thread was literally nothing more than hearsay. This thread is packed with actual evidence and the userbase here is larger and more likely to matter to AP.

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My overall point is, alot of 2+2ers are now going to avoid AP like the plauge. Will this controversy kill the site, probably not but it should hurt their traffic.

My point is, is this the end of online poker? Not even close this is hardly a pimple in the road. Alot of scandals have come before and they haven't stopped online poker.

Does it suck and do I think something very shady is going on? Definately, but what sucks is that there is almost no-way for us to influence AP apart from withdrawing and moving on.

[SkinnyLittleTwig]

Full Tilt Poker Game #928921427: Table Tiger (heads up) - $500/$1000 - Limit Hold'em - 23:43:26 ET - 2006/08/23
Seat 1: eastsideslim ($113,579)
Seat 2: TexasLimitKing ($53,004)
TexasLimitKing posts the small blind of $250
eastsideslim posts the big blind of $500
The button is in seat #2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
TexasLimitKing raises to $1,000
eastsideslim calls $500
*** FLOP *** [Qc 2d 6h]
eastsideslim checks
TexasLimitKing bets $500
helstock (Observer): slim u r sick
eastsideslim raises to $1,000
TexasLimitKing calls $500
*** TURN *** [Qc 2d 6h] [Qs]
eastsideslim bets $1,000
TexasLimitKing calls $1,000
helstock (Observer): killing tex
*** RIVER *** [Qc 2d 6h Qs] [6d]
eastsideslim bets $1,000
TexasLimitKing calls $1,000
*** SHOW DOWN ***
eastsideslim shows [3s 3d] (two pair, Queens and Sixes)
TexasLimitKing shows [4d 4c] (two pair, Queens and Sixes)
TexasLimitKing wins the pot ($7,999.50) with two pair, Queens and Sixes

Dealer: Hand #928923156
Dealer: eastsideslim has 15 seconds left to act
eastsideslim: wtf
Dealer: eastsideslim has timed out
Dealer: TexasLimitKing wins the pot ($500)
eastsideslim: u can only beat one hand
eastsideslim: how can u call with 44
eastsideslim: board QQ662
eastsideslim: i have 33
eastsideslim: i dont like that
eastsideslim: something not right
TexasLimitKing: just continue
eastsideslim: how can u call with 44
TexasLimitKing: im not g oing to tell u how i play
poker or read u
eastsideslim: im done
eastsideslim: u made a lot of good reads
eastsideslim: but thats just impossible
TexasLimitKing: apparently not
eastsideslim: only 1 hand u can beat
TexasLimitKing: yes
eastsideslim: not 22
eastsideslim: 2,3 or 33
eastsideslim: curisity call or misclick is misreading
the board is only possibility
TexasLimitKing: no comment

[Oki-Oki]

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the ITH thread was literally nothing more than hearsay. This thread is packed with actual evidence and the userbase here is larger and more likely to matter to AP.

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The HH that have been provided as proof are pretty damning but I doubt many ppl outside these forums will ever see them. And if an average poker player saw them do they know enough about the theory of the game to interpret them??

Also AP is advertising pretty heavily during the WSOP broadcasts and in cardplayer. IMO even if every 2+2 packed up and left the site would still run. But then you have the problem of super soft games so alot of midlimit players would move back.

In the end it appears that this MIGHT be the end of high and mid high limits on AP, thats all.

[KSOT]

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My overall point is, alot of 2+2ers are now going to avoid AP like the plauge.

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Is it sad that I deposited there an hour ago after I saw their reload offer in the bonus whores newsletter? I'm up like $100 after playing 2/4 limit for 15 mins, so it can't be THAT bad >_>

Maybe it's because there are no other 2+2ers (yeah right).