$50r - Another Easy Preflop Spot That Pisses Me Off

[luckychewy]

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if we raise our hand is not 27. this is true for a number of reasons, one of which is fairly obvious imo. what if we get flatted by one of the random blinds? clearly our hand is not equal to 27 in this instance.

i'm also w/ adanthar and rekwob...random people shove random [censored] in the blinds here all the time.

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chewy ur right that if we get flatted our hand has postflop value but in this spot were almost never being flatted esp in a tournament with a good field like the 50 rebuy, for the most part people are generally not flatting when the effective stack is 15 blinds or so. Also a lot of good players, like intervention perhaps, that most people that are good and raising ~ 15 big blind stacks arent folding to a shove when they open raise since its "the perfect resteal stack."

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although intervention is bad i'd still fold to a shove from him. and yeah, i assume if he flats us he probably has us crushed and our hand has very little value. i was specifically talking about getting flatted by the blinds as the players(even some of the 'good' ones) in the 50r are not strong by any means and will make plenty of pf mistakes here vs our range.

[betgo]

I am pretty sure an open push is significantly cEV+. I would raise/call. Fold to a reraise and call or to a very tight player. I think you see Axs, suited connectors and whatnot restealing here often enough. People just love to resteal in these online rebuys.

[djk123]

1) 50r has a weak field overall
2) intervntion is not good

bad players flat all the time when they're arent supposed to with marginal holdings, so at really does not equal 72 at all.

raise folding to intervntion would be bad imo. if you aren't going to call anybody's shove, i think you're better off open shoving.

[curtains]

With the hand face up its -EV to open push for sure. I think open pushing just sucks, especially with ATo because people will call with a range that is relatively close to the range they'd call with if our hand was face up. At least I find it very unlikely that open pushing will be anything more than very slight +EV.

I think open raising is normal, to like 1500 or something. I think folding to certain re raises is fine. My style is generally that I care less about an individual play than about the way that each of my plays relates to my entire range and etc. If I raise here and am calling reraises with something like 55-70% of my raising range, my opponents should be making a theoretical mistake every time they get out of line, whether I have a calling hand or not.

Of course it makes sense to alter your play for specific situations, thus making it more exploitable, but better suited for the given conditions. However I think open pushing is simply not very good, if my K+S chart says it's bad when you have over 12 BB's from this position, and we have over 16. Folding is obviously bad. The only option left is the very standard raise to 1500-1600. After that you can use your judgement whether to call a reraise, but I would never say that you must call one. Offhand you'll probably need like 40-41% equity to call a raise. If you think you have that against the reraiser's range, then go ahead and call. If not then fold. However I don't think it's some major mistake not to open push for 16x BB when all opponents but one have you covered and it's -EV with the hand face up.

Cliff Notes: I strongly prefer a standard 2.5x BB raise to open pushing. Fold if you want when reraised, or call if you think you are getting the correct equity.

[curtains]

Also ATo never = 72o if you plan to raise fold for the following two reasons:

1. People call sometimes
2. Holding an ace and a ten makes it a bit less likely that an opponent will have a reraising hand, and you should steal the blinds preflop perhaps 2-4% more because of this factor alone.

[djk123]

curtains i prefer an open as well but bb is known for being very spewy so i think we have to call his shove if we're going to open

[betgo]

Wait. You are getting 1.55-1 to call putting in 39% of the money if the reraise comes from someone not in the blinds who has you covered. I little less pot odds against a blind and a little more against a short stack. If a reraise is a resteal a significant percentage of the time, I would have a hard time folding this.

[curtains]

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curtains i prefer an open as well but bb is known for being very spewy so i think we have to call his shove if we're going to open

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Ok, like I said, if we think that our equity will be good enough against a certain player we can call their reraise. Once they go allin its just a simple math question and we try to put them on a range and determine whether or not we have the right odds.

I would almost never call a raise from the CO for example, assuming they are unknown/solid.

[curtains]

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Wait. You are getting 1.55-1 to call putting in 39% of the money if the reraise comes from someone not in the blinds who has you covered. I little less pot odds against a blind and a little more against a short stack. If a reraise is a resteal a significant percentage of the time, I would have a hard time folding this.

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If you think they are restealing a good % of the time and that your equity is better than whatever you need (40-41% or so, I'm just guessing?) then call!

[Bakes]

So you think he stealthmunk mucks 55 and KQs here?