20/180 Play along. Pair and flush draw on flop facing lots of action

[kyro]

I'm posting this from memory as I'm at work. I got differing opinions for other people whose games I respect.

About 70 left or so. Blinds are 75/150. This is my first hand at this table, so unfortunately no reads. I have about 3k chips to start the hand, which is slightly below average for the tournament, but not too much.

2 early limpers, CO limps, SB completes and I check the BB with 76c.

Flop (pot = 750): Jc6h5c.

SB checks. Bet or check here? I'll post my decision and then move on to the next part of the hand in a little bit.

[ssnyc]

i tend to like these situations and even more so when no on's shown strenght yet...I bet about 500 here and don't mind gambling if reraised

[registrar]

Stacks of those involved?

Three-bet shoving is never going to be all that wrong so I think I'd lead, 90% of the time, like 400.

[kyro]

I'm trying to remember. I know one of the EP limpers had like 1200 behind after limping, and the late limper had me covered. I don't remember what the SB or other EP limper had.

[Chicos75]

I'm leading for 400

[Nez477]

I've been mulling this one over for a few minutes, and here are my thoughts:

Our goal should be to get as much of your stack into the pot as possible on that flop

That being said, leading out creates an interesting issue in the fact that if we are smooth called (which will happen often) and blank the turn, we are then playing pot odds and pot control instead of maximizing EV on our hand... I mean, if we bet the flop and get smooth called, what do we do on a blank turn? It kind of feels, strangely, like we're going to be wasting chips by leading out as I think the % we get smooth called is much higher than the % we get reraised

With no reads at all at the table, I think I'm going to check here, with the intentions of check-raising to 1200 or so

If he calls your check raise, you have the perfect stack size to possible push any turn and sitll have fold equity whereas your opponent *shouldn't* be calling without a big hand

IDK, I feel as if I'm off here, but for some reason I really think checking is better than leading

[Sherman]

Bet the flop. Can make better hands (right now) fold (like 88) and hands that are behind call (like AJ). Also, we pick up more good outs if we make a bare flush draw fold and are ahead of them if we call.

So yeah. Bet...around 600 or so. If raised, get it all in.

Edit: I know the first sentence doesn't make much sense. What I am trying to say is that 88 might fold to our bet which is fine and that AJ is likely to call, which is also fine. Even though we are favorite over both, we increase our equity in the pot when 88 folds and when AJ calls.

[BarryLyndon]

[ QUOTE ]
Bet the flop. Can make better hands (right now) fold (like 88) and hands that are behind call (like AJ). Also, we pick up more good outs if we make a bare flush draw fold and are ahead of them if we call.

So yeah. Bet...around 600 or so. If raised, get it all in.

Edit: I know the first sentence doesn't make much sense. What I am trying to say is that 88 might fold to our bet which is fine and that AJ is likely to call, which is also fine. Even though we are favorite over both, we increase our equity in the pot when 88 folds and when AJ calls.

[/ QUOTE ]

How does one increase his equity when 88 folds here?

Barry

[Sherman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Bet the flop. Can make better hands (right now) fold (like 88) and hands that are behind call (like AJ). Also, we pick up more good outs if we make a bare flush draw fold and are ahead of them if we call.

So yeah. Bet...around 600 or so. If raised, get it all in.

Edit: I know the first sentence doesn't make much sense. What I am trying to say is that 88 might fold to our bet which is fine and that AJ is likely to call, which is also fine. Even though we are favorite over both, we increase our equity in the pot when 88 folds and when AJ calls.

[/ QUOTE ]

How does one increase his equity when 88 folds here?

Barry

[/ QUOTE ]

Because someone folds. It's a common concept in limit hold'em. Any time someone folds, you gain equity. For example, in a 3-way pot in limit hold'em you might raise with the 2nd best hand to knock out the player with the third best hand. It cost you one extra BB to knock him out, but you pick up more equity in the pot.

I'm not saying we are trying to knock 88 out in this hand, but that 88 will likely fold to our bet. Which is fine because it increases our equity in this multi-way pot. Likewise, AJ will likely call our bet, which is fine because we are a favorite over his hand.

[Nez477]

[ QUOTE ]
Bet the flop. Can make better hands (right now) fold (like 88) and hands that are behind call (like AJ). Also, we pick up more good outs if we make a bare flush draw fold and are ahead of them if we call.

So yeah. Bet...around 600 or so. If raised, get it all in.

Edit: I know the first sentence doesn't make much sense. What I am trying to say is that 88 might fold to our bet which is fine and that AJ is likely to call, which is also fine. Even though we are favorite over both, we increase our equity in the pot when 88 folds and when AJ calls.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm so rusty, but how is our equity increased when AJ smooth calls?