Raise 2pr for value on 4-str8 board

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

PokerStars 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 9, A.
3 folds</font>, Hero calls, 5 folds</font>, BB checks.
FWIW, I hate my preflop play. If the table were LP enough it would be OK, but it was tighter and more aggro than normal. This should be raise/fold.

Flop: (2.33 SB) A, K, Q (2 players)</font>
BB bets</font>, Hero raises</font>, BB calls.

Turn: (3.16 BB) J (2 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero checks.

River: (3.16 BB) 9 (2 players)</font>
BB bets</font>, Hero: ?

No consideration of folding here, but some friends and I have been debating whether this is just a call or whether the 2-pair can be raised for value in this situation.

Definitely interested in thoughts from the forum.

Comments on all streets welcome. Results later.

[KitCloudkicker]

first thought is that i dont raise the flop in a small pot like this when HU. id rather keep him betting if hes bluffing and not pay too much when behind.

i dont raise the river either, i dont see a hand you beat thats calling unless villain is pretty brainless. KQ would have 3 bet the flop. QJ probably didnt bet the flop. Ax should not be calling a river raise.

if villain is brainless...well, then i guess you have a value bet.

also, are you folding to a 3B? i think we'd have to...

[2p2senseus]

I'd raise. Online I don't think anyone is bad enough to check a straight here on the turn, so his bet could be something like K9 knowing you don't have a Ten.

.

[Aces McGee]

K,SoM

I'm still undecided here, but I think a case can be made for a 3-bet. Your line, if you were to raise the river, looks a lot like K9 or Q9, so you'll get paid off by worse two pair fairly often. Also, if he really sucks, he'll even pay you off with a lonely pair of aces.

From his perspective, a bet/3-bet with any of those hands would be pretty sweet, huh?

Sorry I can't be of more help. I know that if I was actually playing the hand, I'd call, because calling is what I do when I can't decide if I should raise or fold.

-McGee

[James.]

i'm with you pf; i hate it also. ep at a lp table i see a limp, but from mp i'm autoraising first in.

i'm not real crazy about your flop/turn combination either. can you explain your rationale? is a worse hand c/ring you on that turn often enough to sweat bet/fold in a small pot?

i'm still thinking about the river.

[Harv72b]

Ignoring the rest of the hand (although I think we could debate pretty much every decision) and focusing on the river, it's a very thin value raise if it's one at all. I don't doubt that your aces up are good a very significant percentage of the time, but for the raise to be worthwhile you not only have to be good, but also have to be called by a worse hand. In what would then be a 6 BB pot, is that going to happen often enough? With such an obvious straight showing?

I think we have enough hand to call, certainly, but I'm just not sold on a raise (and how retarded does it look to the rest of the table if you raise &amp; fold to a 3bet here?).

[Ricks]

A9s should usually be a raise four off the BTN.

If Villain was an aggressive player who is capable of c/raising that turn with a lesser hand, I would like your turn play. If not, I think you should b/f the turn.

I think the river is close because I don't think our raise will get called a great deal of the time.

[TheCount212]

[ QUOTE ]
(and how retarded does it look to the rest of the table if you raise &amp; fold to a 3bet here?).

[/ QUOTE ]

Plenty retarded.
I think your uncertainty on the river is caused by not betting the turn, although I'm guessing villain was going for a c/r, given his bet on the river. If you bet the turn and he c/r's, then you know you're beat. Call the river and hope for the best.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

(and how retarded does it look to the rest of the table if you raise &amp; fold to a 3bet here?).

This is one aspect I did not consider. Maybe folding to a 3-bet is correct from an immediate EV perspective, it may be like asking the table to take shots at me.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Here's my rationale, FWIW. I raised the flop because I thought I had the best hand. I checked the turn because I figured a worse hand would fold to a bet and then I'd call a bet on the river.

When the river gave me 2-pair, I thought, maybe I can raise for value. He bet, I raised, he called. He mucked and the pot was pushed to me. HH showed he had A3o.

Not wanting to be results oriented, I posted the hand for criticism. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]