Suggestion for all poker sites Re: dealing with scammers and thieves

fnord_too · #1 01-09-2007, 12:41 PM

If this is not already in the works or existing, all poker sites are seriously remiss in their obligations to customers...

There needs to be a cross site task force for dealing with fraud, scams, and outright thievery that takes place. What is common to most of the scams and hacks and thefts is that the villain transfer money on one site for a return transfer on another. In skipolo's case, for instance, the guy who hacked his account offered transfers on Stars for transfers on FullTilt, and unsuspecting players accomodated him.

If sites don't work together, there is basically no way to counter this without going through strictly legal channels, and this would not likely work if villain were not in the US or Europe. It they do work together, however, they can recover a lot. They would have to actually be dilligent and on the ball, (no responding to emails 36 hours later) and probably should offer a telephone hotline.

Really, scams and such are a HUGE threat to online poker: They scare potential customers; they scare (and piss off) existing customers; they give anti gambling zealots amunition. It really is in every sites best interest to pony up and build a cross site task force to police this crap. Until they do, it will only get worse.

/hastily jotted thought before heading to lunch

Paul B. · #2 01-09-2007, 01:13 PM

Yes. It's scary that in some cases, all you need is a password to gain access to 6-figure sums of money. The sites need to offer better security and here are the first steps they should take to do so:

1) require users to provide more information at login. For example, many online banking sites (HSBC, Emigrant Direct, etc) require you to key in an extra password with your mouse or answer security questions in addition to entering your password. Poker sites could easily add this to their software within a week. Make it optional for those who don't want to deal with the hassle but make sure they're aware of the risk of losing their bankroll if they get hacked.

2) IP checks. These should be done with money transfers and at the tables. If I'm logged in from a California location and 5 minutes later someone logs into my account from Toronto, I want Stars to prevent that person from making any transfers or sitting at any tables to chip-dump. I've always felt that money transfers at Stars were too lenient and this can easily be improved with stricter requirements, especially with large sums of money.

Unabridged · #3 01-09-2007, 01:36 PM

they should provide hardware password generators to those users who want them and are willing to pay for them
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_token

Paul B. · #4 01-09-2007, 01:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_token

[/ QUOTE ]

That is a great idea. AOL used to give the RSA SecurID to their employees and the way it works is: the service sends a new one-time password to the token every 10 minutes or so, and you have to input that password along with your regular password. Very secure and affordable ($45 on the RSA website), and I'm sure there are inexpensive alternatives that work just as well.

fnord_too · #5 01-09-2007, 02:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
they should provide hardware password generators to those users who want them and are willing to pay for them
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_token

[/ QUOTE ]

That is an outstanding idea! This really needs to happen for all on line banking and major commerce.

Percula · #6 01-09-2007, 04:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
2) IP checks. These should be done with money transfers and at the tables. If I'm logged in from a California location and 5 minutes later someone logs into my account from Toronto, I want Stars to prevent that person from making any transfers or sitting at any tables to chip-dump.

[/ QUOTE ]

While this is a good idea on the surface, it is not reliable and is easily circumvented.

Triggerle · #7 01-09-2007, 04:26 PM

Is there any conceivable legit reason why anyone would need to receive a player-to-player cash transfer and then immediately send it to some other player?

slim · #8 01-09-2007, 04:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If this is not already in the works or existing, all poker sites are seriously remiss in their obligations to customers...

There needs to be a cross site task force for dealing with fraud, scams, and outright thievery that takes place. What is common to most of the scams and hacks and thefts is that the villain transfer money on one site for a return transfer on another. In skipolo's case, for instance, the guy who hacked his account offered transfers on Stars for transfers on FullTilt, and unsuspecting players accomodated him.

If sites don't work together, there is basically no way to counter this without going through strictly legal channels, and this would not likely work if villain were not in the US or Europe. It they do work together, however, they can recover a lot. They would have to actually be dilligent and on the ball, (no responding to emails 36 hours later) and probably should offer a telephone hotline.

Really, scams and such are a HUGE threat to online poker: They scare potential customers; they scare (and piss off) existing customers; they give anti gambling zealots amunition. It really is in every sites best interest to pony up and build a cross site task force to police this crap. Until they do, it will only get worse.

/hastily jotted thought before heading to lunch

[/ QUOTE ]

Can someone explain how this theivery works? A person gains access to your Stars password and then drains it by asking a strangers on Stars to forward them money on FT (which the thief has an account)? Is that the jist of it? Does the thief gain trust of strangers by sending them money FIRST on Stars? I can't imagin strangers being so trusting and even if they were, how can the thief be sure the stranger will send him money on FT?

fatshaft · #9 01-09-2007, 04:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Can someone explain how this theivery works? A person gains access to your Stars password and then drains it by asking a strangers on Stars to forward them money on FT (which the thief has an account)? Is that the jist of it? Does the thief gain trust of strangers by sending them money FIRST on Stars? I can't imagin strangers being so trusting and even if they were, how can the thief be sure the stranger will send him money on FT?

[/ QUOTE ]Seems to be about it, basically OP wants sites to protect players from being ridiculously gullible

fnord_too · #10 01-09-2007, 04:55 PM

Slim,

Generally, yes. Someone gets anothers passwords, then arranges transfers (usually with high level, trusted players). They transfer the money first, then get the reciprocal transfer. They may play some hands and then do another trasnfer, or just withdraw. Also, sometimes chip dumping is involved.

As to how they can trust the stranger, there is an awful lot of money swapping at sites among high rollers. I believe usually legit guys (LucLongley in skipolo's case) are asked. If someone screws the scammer on an exchange, it is not like it costs them anything other than opportunity since without moving the money somehow they can never get at it.