standard NL line for TPTK

[gregorio]

In limit, this is easy: bet all streets for value. What’s a standard line here in NL?

Both players have 100BB stacks.

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Hero raises to 4xBB; BB calls

Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (pot is 8BB)
BB checks, Hero bets 6BB, Button calls

Turn: 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img](pot is 20BB)
BB checks, Hero ...?

Should I be checking behind on turn for pot control/to induce bluff; calling a pot-sized or less bet on river/value betting river if checked to me? Am I correct in thinking these the types of hands I want to play medium sized pots, and not have to worry about being all in on river?


If flop is more drawy, like:
Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

I pot it on the flop, and then do I also bet a blank on the Turn to charge the draws, or still check to keep pot small?

[Pyromaniac]

stack size is important here, tho, right? the line is different depending on how deep you are?

[gregorio]

[ QUOTE ]
stack size is important here, tho, right? the line is different depending on how deep you are?

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course. I keep forgetting to post stack sizes. I was assuming 100BB stacks.

[xorbie]

The lower stakes you get, the more you want to get it all in by betting and the less you want to get it all in by calling when you have TPTK. When you move higher up, it gets a little more blurry. Normally you are still good to go by just betting all the way down, but sometimes you will get into ugly spots in which it's often better to check for pot control and to induce action from weaker hands.

[Grunch]

In general terms, it's never bad to just bet, bet, bet until you're all in assuming you know your opponent's range. In practice sometimes it's more +EV to a degree to check the turn & let him bluff. But even if that's true it's not -EV to just bet again. Conversely, depending on the board & your opponent it may be a big mistake to check.

So when in doubt, bet.

[SomethingClever]

Betting the turn is standard here IMO. You get value from KQ, QJ, JT, etc. I'd make it 17 or 18bb.

If he calls that turn bet, the river is not a clear value bet. Depends on your read, and the card that comes.

[mayday4379]

sometimes i check the turn and call/bet the river. Sometimes I bet the Turn, then check behind on the river. since the board isn't draw heavy, i'd check the turn and bet 3/4 pot on the river. If villain bets 3/4 pot or full pot I call. If he bets less on the river, I raise.

[Pyromaniac]

this sounds like a stupid question, i know, but why 17 or 18bb? instead of either 15bb for 3/4 pot or 20bb for pot-sized?

is this just a discounted pot-sized bet, to help induce a weaker hand calling? or is it just "somewhere between 3/4 and pot-sized, the amount doesn't really matter"?

[SomethingClever]

[ QUOTE ]
this sounds like a stupid question, i know, but why 17 or 18bb? instead of either 15bb for 3/4 pot or 20bb for pot-sized?

is this just a discounted pot-sized bet, to help induce a weaker hand calling? or is it just "somewhere between 3/4 and pot-sized, the amount doesn't really matter"?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think a bet of anywhere from 15 to 20 bb is probably fine; my personal preference is to bet a little more than 3/4 of the pot when I have TPTK or better.

There are also times when you'll want to bet more than 20 bb, but that's pretty dependent on your image and your reads.

[6471849653]

If one gets only one more value bet in (as one bet or a combination of two bets on the turn and the river), then there's generally no point of giving any free cards on the turn. If one gets more in, then one bets the turn of course.

There's some more reason to bet the turn when it's a lower flop than when it's a higher flop as the opponent is not as likely thinking you have a hand when you are betting the turn when it's a low flop, and then one might bet the river too (that makes more money than checking the turn and then representing a bluff at the river - that one might then do in the high flop case too where the opponent might have folded on the turn, or if he is the first to act, he might bluff the river). Out of position it can be nice to check the turn (like when the flop is low, though the possibility of him having a two pair or better has increased but one pair or less may be more likely), depending of what one figures the opponent has called you with and what he figures to do on the flop, turn and/or river.

Against a calling station one could bet half the pot or more (whatever he calls) on the turn and 1/3 of the pot or more at the river, for the best profits. I am not scared of getting raised or check-raised on the river until the opponent or/and the board type says so. I think the solid players check somewhat too much at the river, though I don't mean one should bet and get no value.

If the turn is a scare card and there's a good chance the opponent may bluff the river if one checks the turn, and if one may suck-out with the river card, one should consider a check on the turn. But usually it's just best to bet the turn when one has the position (the reasons are clear from limit holdem), but even when not on the position, it can get too hard to check and call vs. some players. One can control the size of the bet on the turn.

It's as complex as at limit holdem plus an added significance as the bets are bigger. Overall, one is acting according of what one thinks the situation is like, it being dependent of that, what one should be doing. There just being factors one can talk about of what one should be thinking about.