So What Ranges Should I Have Here?

[NoahSD]

I've been thinking about this spot a lot lately, and it came up a few times yesterday, so I thought I'd post it.

It's like 3 orbits into a 6-max tourney Effective stacks 100 BB. BU is a player who you've heard from reliable sources is a good lag, but you don't have a specific read. PAHUD stats say like 25/20, but obviously that's not reliable over 18 hands. Neither of you have been to showdown or really done anything interesting, and you've already 3-bet BU twice over his LP raises and he folded both times.

Anyway, folded to BU who opens to 4 BBs. SB folds and you make it 13 BBs from the BB. Not gonna bother asking what my range should be here, but obv it's pretty wide but not out of control or anything. What do you expect BU's calling range to be? 4-betting range?

Pot is 27 BBs. Flop comes A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. What hands are you checking here? What's your c-bet size, and does it vary at all with your hand? What kind of stacks do you want to set up on the turn?

I bet 20 BBs, and BU calls. What's his range?

Pot is 67 BBs. We have 67 BBs left. Turn (A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img])5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].

What's your shoving range? What's your check/calling range?

[NHFunkii]

good post. I pretty much cbet everything there, with the occasional check of high pair, ace, or air, but not really that frequent with any of them. I don't really like it because it's so exploitable, but I also think his calling range is pretty much ace or set at the beginning of a tourney vs an unknown, and I think he probably only calls preflop with AJs+...ish for aces, maybe a little looser. In other words, I think he folds a lot, and I think cbetting the flop defines your hand pretty well as an unknown vs a good player.

ok actually I just read that you've already 3bet twice over his lp raises, so pretty much cancel everything I just said. but I'll leave it there because I think it's good for when you have no history.

[A_PLUS]

This is a tough spot for AJ or less, maybe AT+ a c-bet isn't a bluff, but anything less it pretty much is. I think your 2 3-bets are huge here. It raises the possibility of him floating here a ton. If we have AT or better, I think a check-call is in order, we have dug ourselves in pretty deep to be folding here, and it with this board, it is the surest way to get value. I think this is very interesting, I definitely like the position in a very broad context. Spots like this are strange spots where someone gets stacked, when afterwards they are thinking "how the hell did I just dump my stack with A9". Basically, you have broadened your range enough that you are getting a lot of value for marginal hands, on the other hand, you have to showdown lighter than usual b/c of this, and it can be a great way for him to stack you with AQ+ or a set.

np

[uclabruinz]

Noah, given the history you already have with villain, I disagree you should reraise pretty wide preflop. He's almost never folding, and you'll really have no idea postflop if he's floating or not, or where you stand with Ax type hands. Calling wide is fine, raising is not.

At the turn, I basically don't think you should be shoving any hand. It's either check/call or check/fold.

[NoahSD]

Oh jeez. Left out pretty important fact that we're not unknown to villain. Assume he basically has the same read on me that I have on him--good lag that he's never played with before.

I think that means I can still be 3-betting lightish even with that quick history--although obv I'm not just like 3-betting any two or any ace or anything crazy like that. But certainly like ATo and similar marginal type stuff that I'd fold to a 4-bet.