improving my WTSD

rzk · #1 07-03-2007, 02:48 AM

my wtsd is barely above 30 so i'd like to improve it. i've looked through around 750 most recent hands and found the closest (in my view) call/fold decisions. i'd appreciate some feedback on which hands you think i made the wrong choice in. i know it's a lot of hands, but you can simply give the hand numbers where the last call/fold decision is wrong (for example you can just say "hands 3,6,10,11").

All hands are:
Full Tilt Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $3/$6

Hand 1. villain is 45/13/0.9 w/96 hands
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG+1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG folds, Hero raises, 3 folds, BB calls.

Flop: 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4.5SB, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.

Turn: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3.25BB, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB raises, Hero calls.

River: 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (7.25BB, 2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

Results:
Final pot: 9.25BB

Hand 2. CO is 45/16/1.5 wtsd 37, BTN is 34/14/2.4 w/220 hands
5 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Hero raises, CO 3-bets, Button calls, 2 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (10.5SB, 3 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Button calls, Hero raises, CO 3-bets, Button caps, Hero calls

the rest of this hand, if you want it, is below in white: 
, CO calls.

Turn: Jh (11.25BB, 3 players)
Hero checks, CO checks, Button checks.

River: Tc (11.25BB, 3 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Button calls, Hero calls.

Results:
Final pot: 14.25BB


Hand 3. villain is 25/18/2.7 w/137 hands
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is Button with 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
3 folds, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, BB folds, Hero calls.

Flop: 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6SB, 2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

Turn: 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4BB, 2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB calls.

River: 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (8BB, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB raises, Hero calls.

Results:
Final pot: 12BB

Hand 4. villain is 48/4/0.8 w/127 hands
5 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is Button with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
UTG calls, CO folds, Hero raises, SB folds, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6.5SB, 3 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, BB folds, UTG raises, Hero folds.
Uncalled bets: 1SB returned to UTG.

the above fold looks completely standard to me, but what about if villain was something like 40/20/1.7?

Results:
Final pot: 4.25BB

Hand 5. villain is 52/20/1.1 wtsd40 w/550 hands
5 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is BB with 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG folds, CO raises, 2 folds, Hero 3-bets, CO calls.

Flop: 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4.5SB, 2 players)
Hero bets, CO calls.

Turn: J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3.25BB, 2 players)
Hero bets, CO calls.

River: K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5.25BB, 2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero folds.
Uncalled bets: 1BB returned to CO.

Results:
Final pot: 5.25BB

Hand 6. villain is 45/16/1.5 wtsd 37
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is CO with 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
2 folds, Hero raises, Button calls, 2 folds.

Flop: 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5.5SB, 2 players)
Hero bets, Button calls.

Turn: T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3.75BB, 2 players)
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero folds.
Uncalled bets: 1BB returned to Button.

Results:
Final pot: 5.75BB

Hand 7. villain is 53/14/1.1 wtsd 33 w/1469 hands
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, CO calls, Button folds, SB calls, Hero raises, UTG calls, CO calls, SB calls.

Flop: 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4SB, 4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG raises, 2 folds, Hero calls.

Turn: J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4BB, 2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, Hero calls.

River: 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6BB, 2 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks.

Results:
Final pot: 6BB

Hand 8. villain is 26/16/2.0 wtsd 44 w/519 hands
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is Button with 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
2 folds, CO (poster) checks, Hero raises, SB folds, BB calls, CO calls.

Flop: 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6.5SB, 3 players)
BB checks, CO checks, Hero bets, BB raises, CO folds, Hero folds.
Uncalled bets: 1SB returned to BB.

Results:
Final pot: 4.25BB

Hand 9. villain is 51/21/1.6 wtsd 33 w/136 hands
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is SB with 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
4 folds, Hero raises, BB calls.

Flop: 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3SB, 2 players)
Hero bets, BB calls.

Turn: 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2.5BB, 2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, Hero folds.
Uncalled bets: 1BB returned to BB.

here i can't decide between b/f, b/c, c/c, and c/f. i think it's b/f, right?

Results:
Final pot: 2.5BB

Hand 10. villain is 44/13/1.2 wtsd 40 w/4821 hands
5 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is CO with 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG folds, Hero raises, 2 folds, BB calls.

Flop: 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4.5SB, 2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

Turn: J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3.25BB, 2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

River: Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5.25BB, 2 players)
BB bets, Hero folds.
Uncalled bets: 1BB returned to BB.

Results:
Final pot: 5.25BB

Hand 11. villain is 45/17/1.7 wtsd 34 w/494 hands
4 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (4 players) Hero is SB with 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
2 folds, Hero raises, BB calls.

Flop: 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3SB, 2 players)
Hero bets, BB raises, Hero calls.

Turn: J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3.5BB, 2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, Hero folds.
Uncalled bets: 1BB returned to BB.

Results:
Final pot: 3.5BB

Hand 12. villain is 52/16/1.8 w/262 hands
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG+1 with 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
UTG folds, Hero raises, CO calls, 3 folds.

Flop: 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5.5SB, 2 players)
Hero bets, CO calls.

Turn: 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3.75BB, 2 players)
Hero bets, CO calls.

River: K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5.75BB, 2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero calls.

Results:
Final pot: 7.75BB

Hand 13. villain is 53/14/1.1 wtsd 33 w/1469 hands
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
UTG raises, 3 folds, Hero 3-bets, UTG calls.

Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4.5SB, 3 players)
Hero bets, UTG calls.

Turn: T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3.25BB, 3 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, Hero calls.

River: 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5.25BB, 3 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, Hero folds.
Uncalled bets: 1BB returned to UTG.

also, turn play ok?

Results:
Final pot: 5.25BB

Hand 14. villain is 39/3/0.8 wtsd 30 w/1388 hands
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
2 folds, CO calls, Button calls, Hero raises, BB folds, CO calls, Button calls.

Flop: 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5.5SB, 3 players)
Hero bets, CO folds, Button calls.

Turn: 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3.75BB, 2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero folds.
Uncalled bets: 1BB returned to Button.

Results:
Final pot: 3.75BB

Hand 15. villain is 34/12/1.4 wtsd 39 w/1863 hands
4 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (4 players) Hero is Button with 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
UTG folds, Hero raises, SB folds, BB 3-bets, Hero calls.

Flop: 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4.5SB, 2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

the rest of the hand, if you want it, is below in white:


Turn: Th (3.25BB, 2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

River: 2s (5.25BB, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.

probably a very bad bluff.

Results:
Final pot: 7.25BB

secretprankster · #2 07-03-2007, 08:36 AM

Hand 1: Very close but I fold the river.

Hand 2: Looks okay, but usually fold the river. Putting them both on hands you beat is tough.

Hand 3: Doesn't look good but I don't ever fold.

Hand 4: Looks fine, change his stats a bit and I at least peel, maybe calldown.

Hand 5: I'd have to call the river vs. this dude.

Hand 6: Wp.

Hand 7: Tough... obviously inclined to show down but the jack is a really bad card and he raised in a multiway pot. I'd probably call the turn and reeval depending on the river (usually calling).

Hand 8: Gross. Gutter+bdfd...

Hand 9: Looks fine, he never folds. CR the turn next time it comes up.

Hand 10: Flop AF? I would probably just fold the flop here, even though it feels weak you're never in good shape and very often in horrible shape. River is an automuck given how it played out, consider raising turn for FSD but I would just give up earlier usually.

Hand 11: If you ever fold a pair in a blind war this looks like an OK time, but it's close as you typically have most of your outs and there's the huge donk factor to consider. I don't mind the fold though, esp. on the J turn.

Hand 12: I often check the turn here because I think you get raised a lot off the best hand. River is close, since he's so loose he could have been peeling garbage the whole way - but by the same token he could've just played A2 passively. Flip a coin maybe, I'd fold here though.

Hand 13: I don't 3-bet that pre. Turn is kind've a stove problem, even though narrowing this guy's range is not easy since he's likely awful.

Hand 14: There's definitely merit to firing again since gutshots make up a lot of his range, as well as stupid stuff that peeled one but will fold the turn. He's never going to semibluff raise you off the best hand either, which is good. I'd probably bet the turn.

Hand 15: Typically fold the flop here since you've probably got a bit of RIO attached to your pair outs. Throw in a BDSD and I might call. River bluff...meh. Nobody folds there rly.

vmacosta · #3 07-03-2007, 09:40 AM

good god you fold a lot. I don't like about half these hands and hand 8 is lol awful.

Are you running terrible or have you always played like this? Perhaps you don't have alot of experience or PAHUD and don't know just how often people bet without top pair?

Oink · #4 07-03-2007, 10:01 AM

You play a few of these hands pretty awful IMO.

1) I can find a fold here.

2) I am getting to SD on a lot of turns/rivers. The river call is close as the hand unfolded and I think I fold it.

3) I bet/call this as well. 77 is the only hand in his range that got there. I smell BS.

4) I never fold here.
- Villain is a moron
- When you raise and play aggro the passives sometimes play back with lesser holdings
- His VPIP/AF combo is actually not that passive
- But you dont really have enough hands to be sure about his aggression. You dont have reads?

Against a player that we know is aggressive that would be a pretty terrible fold.

5) LOL terrible! Dont fold the river. I would c/c. If he was more passive I would bet/fold.

6) I dont mind this one. If i knew he was aggresive I would call down bricks

7) ...

8) LOL terrible

9) I c/c
- You have outs
- You have SD value
- He will bet turn and check behind river sometimes
- He is calling any2 preflop and peeling his whole range on that flop. You eq is still good.

10) You have to call this one down IMO. But it surely helps with a read.

11) Looks ok to me

12) Looks ok to me

13) Postflop looks ok to me. I think 3-betting pre is spewish

14) I am not folding. He has PPs, A high and a lot of straight draws. Since he looks really passive I would just bet/fold it and reevaluate river.

15) I cant see how this hand affects your wtsd. I hate the bluff BTW.

BrassMonkey · #5 07-03-2007, 01:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]

5) LOL terrible! Dont fold the river. I would c/c. If he was more passive I would bet/fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? Don't fold here? I'm confused...

vmacosta · #6 07-03-2007, 01:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

5) LOL terrible! Dont fold the river. I would c/c. If he was more passive I would bet/fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? Don't fold here? I'm confused...

[/ QUOTE ]

What's not to get? The guy's a major lag and you beat all A-high hands, a bunch of pairs, and a few busted str8 draws--all hands he could easily take to the river with this line on this board. Of course you're a decent-size dog when you check and he bets, so I'd prefer betting myself.

BrassMonkey · #7 07-03-2007, 02:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

5) LOL terrible! Dont fold the river. I would c/c. If he was more passive I would bet/fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? Don't fold here? I'm confused...

[/ QUOTE ]

What's not to get? The guy's a major lag and you beat all A-high hands, a bunch of pairs, and a few busted str8 draws--all hands he could easily take to the river with this line on this board. Of course you're a decent-size dog when you check and he bets, so I'd prefer betting myself.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dunno - calling this seems like a major major waste over the long haul. I'd c/f this river every time, even against a LAG, and betting out makes no sense to me whatsoever. For me it's c/f >> c/c >>> b/f >>>> b/c, with b/c being a huge, silly spew.

sethypooh21 · #8 07-03-2007, 03:31 PM

1) Meh, whatever. Probably a fold against this guy, but not the worst call ever.

Hand 2: I think I fold the flop when it's two back to me. Even if you're good (which is doubtful) you have to dodge half the deck, twice, against 2 aggro opponents. This hand is the very definition of RIO.

3) Fine vs. villain this aggro. It's closer to a fold if there was no FD on the flop.

4) Looks fine. If villain is 1.7 AF you are probably calling down most boards here, maybe folding river UI.

5) [censored] up river card. If villain is any more aggro, easy call. Any less, easy fold. Flip a coin.

6) Great spot for turn value-check IMO. Villain is pretty aggro (remember that the looser an opponent PF, the more 'aggro' a given AF means he is) and there are a gazillion draws out there. You don't want to pay 3 to see show down, so B/F will mean you end up folding best hand a lot and he'll bet many many rivers if you check turn.

7) Fine. If he bets river, easy fold.

8) Jopke. This is closer to 3b then to fold.

9) B/C the turn. As played, for god's sake don't fold your 2overs + gutter in a bvb vs. aggro.

10) Fine, though raising or folding turn are also acceptable.

11) Terrible turn card. Probably fine even vs. someone this aggro.

12) Std.

13) B/C turn. C/F is fine on river as played.

14) Fine

15) Peel is fine. Turn semi-bluff raise >>>>> river bluff. He folds A hi never to your river bet, but might if you raised turn.

stickdude · #9 07-03-2007, 07:36 PM

Hand 1 - looks ok

Hand 2 - I'm outta there after the flop. Look back at button's action - he cold-called 3 bets pre-flop and then call/capped the flop. What could he have that you beat?

Hand 3 - looks ok. Raising the flop to see how he reacts wouldn't be bad, either.

Hand 4 - looks ok against a passive villain like that.

Hand 5 - ugh. That's a great river for you if he was calling down with Tx/Jx. Bet that puppy and wait for the "nice catch" comment after he folds. If he raises, it's an easy fold.

Hand 6 - good fold - I don't see him cold-calling your PFR with anything you beat at this point.

Hand 7 - I know you're supposed to raise AK pre-flop, but you're OOP in a multi-way pot. If you check here and flop an Ace/King, you're in a great spot to c/r the field. If you whiff (as you did here), it's easy to get away from - you don't feel obligated to c-bet into 3 players as happened here.

Hand 8 - I think everyone else has bashed this hand enough. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Hand 9 - I'd probably call the turn and re-evaluate on the river.

Hand 10 - calling the flop donk is probably the worst option there. I'd raise the flop and bet the turn and go from there. I see a lot of people donk bet low flops like this because they always put you on AK when you raise pre-flop.

Hand 11 - looks ok

Hand 12 - looks ok

Hand 13 - I probably fold the turn. If he hadn't raised pre-flop I might want to see a showdown, but not here.

Hand 14 - see comment for hand 7

Hand 15 - yeah, very bad river bluff. I like a semibluff on the turn (when you might have some fold equity against A-high) much better.

Scary_Tiger · #10 07-03-2007, 07:39 PM

I can't read all the hands cause I'm lazy, but hand 5 is definitely a call.