Two Plus Two Newer Archives  

Go Back   Two Plus Two Newer Archives > Other Poker > Other Poker Games

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-05-2006, 02:38 PM
AlanBostick AlanBostick is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: California
Posts: 797
Default HORSE Metagame Makes HORSE an \"Other\" Game?

I take seriously the point of view that since all of the component games in HORSE have their own forums, HORSE is not an "Other" poker game.

At the same time, it seems to me that there are metagame issues in HORSE and other mixed games that simply aren't present in the individual games.

One of these, surely, is the fact that most mixed-game players are stronger in some of the games in the mix and weaker in others. It makes a big difference to me in how I play a hand if my single opponent in a stud/8 round is a stone-killer Omaha player but is weak in stud/8.

Who the live ones are can change with the change of game. What's more, the stud player who takes a beating in the flop-game rounds might be on a particular sort of tilt when the stud games start: "Okay, I'm in my element, now, so you better get out of my pots!"

What are other HORSE player's thoughts on the metagame? How is the HORSE metagame different from those of its component games?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-06-2006, 07:04 PM
Bill King Bill King is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: S.C.I.E.N.C.E.
Posts: 3,305
Default Re: HORSE Metagame Makes HORSE an \"Other\" Game?

i think the game itself is interesting in that, some players are more concerned with, and understand concepts better in certain games than others. basically, you can go ahead and play wild in the flop games, and the stud guys who are usually pretty tight are over there droooling waiting for the stud variants to begin so they can pick on you. they may loosen up their range against you if they see you firing away on the flop games.

you may also find that blind stealing is more effective against specialists in non-flop variants. playing position and taking them out of their comfort zone is something I find myself doing with greater frequency.

understanding the thought process of the villain(s) is a much better and effective process when you understand how they think. an easy way to narrow this down is to find out the villains best game, and appropriately connect that with his other games he may be more weak in.

hope that helps.

-Bill
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-07-2006, 04:18 PM
kutuz_off kutuz_off is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: New York City
Posts: 1,953
Default Re: HORSE Metagame Makes HORSE an \"Other\" Game?

I think that if you want to discuss a specific hand, you should post in an appropriate forum. However, many of HORSE-related topics in "Other poker" forum were related to bankroll requirements, software, and relative toughness of games. Those kinds of things don't belong in any one game's forum, so they end up here.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-10-2006, 03:29 PM
Tom Bayes Tom Bayes is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 891
Default Re: HORSE Metagame Makes HORSE an \"Other\" Game?

One reason why a lot of HORSE topics (or Razz topics, etc.) end up in Other Poker is that not all posters know what games go to what topics (i.e. Razz is part of the Stud Forum domain) and that most of the regular posters in Other Poker play lots of games and aren't interested in making a scene if a Razz or Omaha/8 post ends up here.

I've got a couple of general observations on my limited experience with online HORSE. Most of my play has been in SNGs and satellites, with a bit of play at the $1/$2 cash games. My first observation is that I have run into a lot of players that I am going to classify as "split-personality". By that, I've seen several players who play one game, say Holdem, with one particular stereotypical style. But when the game is switched, say to one of the stud games, the player will take on a completely different poker stereotype. The most common manifestation of this that I have seen are playes that are rather tight (either TAGs or rocks) in Holdem and possibly Omaha/8 who turn into complete calling stations in RSE.

My speculation is that almost all players have a default playing style that they use when playing an unfamiliar game or when they are tired, on tilt, etc. This default style is usually suboptimal. A minority of players are naturally too tight or too aggressive, but the most common default style appears to be loose-passive (i.e. calling station). I think there are a lot of players who have a few years of experience and/or have read up on limit holdem and have adapted from a chip-spewing call station to a decent tight player. I'm sure many of these players have played very little of the RSE games and have not educated themselves in them like they have in H, and thus revert back to a weak loose-passive style.

Another thing I've noticed that happens in HORSE tournaments (single table or multi table) is that a lot of players go batshit crazy during the second or third round of holdem (H2 or H3). Play is usually reasonable during H1 and 01. Many players are terrible at the stud variants and blow most of their stacks playing too passively or maniacally during the stud games. Others suffer big hits getting chased down. I've seen a lot of players go on tilt and/or feel pressured to accumulate chips when they get to the 2nd/3rd round of holdem and the play during H2/H3 is horrible. I've had some very positive results building up a stack during these rounds of holdem exploiting these tilting desperate players
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-11-2006, 06:40 PM
AlanBostick AlanBostick is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: California
Posts: 797
Default Re: HORSE Metagame Makes HORSE an \"Other\" Game?

I consider myself to be a stud/8 specialist who is competent in stud and hold'em, aware but inexperienced in Omaha/8, and deficient in razz.

As I've mentioned in another thread in this forum, I've been playing in low limit (up to $5-$10) HORSE on Stars, and having phenomenal success in the hold'em rounds. (12BB/100 after just short of 1000 hands. The sample size is small, but even so my win rate/100 is more than two standard errors above break-even.)

Two things are going on, I think:

(1) Bad-to-mediocre players who are getting their rear ends handed to them on platters in pure hold'em games are giving HORSE a try, leaving pure hold'em to the TAGs, rocks, and educated donks. Once in the HORSE games, they are open to clueful hold'em players continuing to hand them platters of rear end.

(2) Many stud-variant specialists just plain suck at flop games, thereby becoming easy pickings for competent players.

One of the challenges of HORSE I have scarecely even begun to master is sorting out the players in terms of at which games they are (or think they are) good players.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-11-2006, 06:41 PM
Grasshopp3r Grasshopp3r is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Aurora, CO (suburb of Denver)
Posts: 1,728
Default Re: HORSE Metagame Makes HORSE an \"Other\" Game?

There is also the possibility that someone will miss the Razz to Stud game transistion or the Stud to S8. I have witnessed that more than a few times at low limits. The pokerstars version of the game has the game type in very small print at the top of the window that is easily overlooked.

Have you observed missed game changes at higher limits?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-11-2006, 06:47 PM
Tom Bayes Tom Bayes is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 891
Default Re: HORSE Metagame Makes HORSE an \"Other\" Game?

Yeah, the missed game change mistakes and subsequent tilt is real common in the games I've played. Every time I think I have a good starting hand for RSE, I double-check to make sure I don't go off to war with 642 rainbow in Stud.

Full Tilt prints the name of the game for the RSE rounds right on the table, which makes it harder to miss the transition.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:25 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.