Religion DOES Do More Good Than Harm

[vhawk01]

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George travels in deception and perhaps delusion. This in no way represents the statement that religion causes wars.



If George is deluded by his religion into thinking he needs to make war, then yes, religion can help cause wars.

And I'm pretty sure if you look at the other side, the Islamics outright claim they're waging a holy war.

I think with a little research one can easily find a lot of Evangelical Christians who are interested in war in the Middle East because it will fulfill their religious prophecies.

One can look in the past to see war fueled by religion: The Crusades, The French Wars of Religion, Reconquista, the fights between Catholics & Protestants in Ireland, and of course, Islamic Jihad.


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You're reading things to suit yourself. The idea that George is "deluded by his religion" is laughable. Men start wars. George Bush is not a passive imbiber of a Jerry Falwell or Billy Graham cabal. that George might be a "naught" influenced by others I've often thought about but it's definitely not religion.

Look to individuals in all the referenced belligerents. This in no way implies that the religions of today or yesterday cannot be taken issue with but I'd prefer to look for the individual involved. If a pope starts a crusade or an inquisition then seeing this as the work of man puts the responsibility right where it belongs.

Also, the original issue was about George Bush and you've spread the field which is logically untenable. Throwing "books" or "wars" at another in hopes to confirm a generalization doesn't register. George Bush and the American landscape are quite different from the papacy and the crusades. Taking each individually and characterizing each within their own milieu IMO is the better approach.

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Weird how "men start wars" but "religious men give to charity" hmm? I hope you shout down anyone who uses Mother Teresa as an example of anything just as loudly.

[carlo]

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Weird how "men start wars" but "religious men give to charity" hmm? I hope you shout down anyone who uses Mother Teresa as an example of anything just as loudly.

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Mother Theresa stands on her own. No need to shout anybody down. Anytime I approach the particular religious denominations or any generalization with perspective I find it very difficult to find my way. It's like punching air or grabbing water. The history of mankind progresses through individual men and if one must judge, the road ends there.

By the way, thanks for the video. The people who marched to Washington under a religious aegis met duplicity which was equal to theirs. Power,power,power, no more and no less.

[Splendour]

Not sure why you're focusing on trailer comments Kurto. The video was showing the political manipulation of a group of people.

In the U.S. there are voting blocks formed for all different reasons. Some are socioeconomic, some are ethnic, some are religious, some are regional, etc. The blocks base their votes on how politicians respond to their concerns. Anyone knows a politician can promise anything but what he delivers is another matter entirely.

You rant about logic in many threads you post. But this isn't about logic its about naivete. Haven't you ever heard of lobbying groups, voter identification. Do you really think every politician is what he represents?

I hope everyone watches the video so they can see what really happened. The trailer comments are not what really happened they are just the opinions of some viewers of the video.

[CrayZee]

I agree w/ your view on individual religion vs. happiness. Siding w/ the "monumental underdog" here is really just functional irrationality.

But I am still not convinced that the aggregate of religious organization is positive. Isn't race, religion, and language commonly used to dehumanize people and help convince people into war. The less you can relate to the "enemy" the easier it is to wipe them out.

Religion is also used as an excuse to oppose inconvenient knowledge.

[valenzuela]

I have thought this subject through over and over, "does religion make the world a better place?" and I reached the conclusion that it depends on the religion.
IMO a religion like christianity has way too many downsides, those downsides mostly include the denial of our own sexuality and how human beings really work.
I think that the ideal religion would be one that had all the secular values but backed up with a nice invisble man in the sky.
I like being an atheist because I got rid of specific christian BS out of my head( being gay is bad, etc) but if I could believe in a God with secular values it would be really awesome.

[Tuco]

I agree, but David you ignore the likely result of what happens when differing religions go to war in the name of their state. Big downside that should be factored in.

Tuco.

[Lestat]

I agree there is no harm in leaving someone to their dellusions if that's what it takes to give their life a sense of purpose and makes them feel happy and secure. The problem is when people take these exact same dellusions and use them in dangerous ways. Bombing abortion clinics comes to mind as does blowing oneself up imagining that's what heir God wants them to and has 72 virgins waiting for them as a reward.

These debates should rarely be be about God, but about reason and rationality.

[sirio11]

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I'm reading things to suit myself? Since when is taking a man at his word "reading things to suit myself?"


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Come on Kurto, you really think the Iraq war was started because Georgy wanted to please his God ?

If you're really serious about that I have nothing more to add. I guess God didn't just call George, probably he and his infinite power made a video-conference and convinced George, Cheney, and all the others in the power structure on the US to go to war with Iraq.

I'm not a religious man at all, but I wonder why some people spend a lot of time and energy trying to blame religion for all the bad things in this world when alternative explanations (using Occam's razor) are just more plausible than the "evilness" of religion. I know pretty intelligent and logic people who just lose it when they start talking about religion and how religious people are stupid and evil at the same time !?!. If they were molested by a priest or something I understand, but if not, it's hard to understand being that zealous.

[sirio11]

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I agree there is no harm in leaving someone to their delusions if that's what it takes to give their life a sense of purpose and makes them feel happy and secure.

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Agree

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The problem is when people take these exact same delusions and use them in dangerous ways.

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Yes, and I think the solution is to focus in the individuals and rarely in the delusions themselves. There are sick individuals with all kind of delusions, I mean there are people who have killed hundreds because they hate government, and I don't think a good idea is to start a crusade against ACists because they are "dangerous people"

Ah, and I also think stereotypes like

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imagining that's what heir God wants them to and has 72 virgins waiting for them as a reward.


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are pretty bad to understand other cultures and work together as a global society in order to make the world a better place to live.

[madnak]

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I'm not a religious man at all, but I wonder why some people spend a lot of time and energy trying to blame religion for all the bad things in this world when alternative explanations (using Occam's razor) are just more plausible than the "evilness" of religion. I know pretty intelligent and logic people who just lose it when they start talking about religion and how religious people are stupid and evil at the same time !?!. If they were molested by a priest or something I understand, but if not, it's hard to understand being that zealous.

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On that note, I think people greatly underestimate the damage that religion is regularly responsible for at the personal level. It's not about suicide bombers. It's about dysfunctional relationship models, motivation through guilt and fear, and heavy-handed condemnation (leading to persecution of condemned individuals and alienation from condemned groups).