Settle a strange question: Is a watch an organon?

[Mermade]

The term as it is used in Aristotle and Kant's work refers to either principles or a system of principles. Yes, principles are understood to be "tools" in the pursuit of knowledge, however this wasn't intended to refer to a physical object. The primary texts that form Aristotlelian logic is an organon; a watch is not, at least that is as I understand it.

[KJS]

By this interpretation any object that imparts any knowledge whatsoever is one. And since every object can at minimum impart knowledge about its own characteristics (it is a red shoe), all objects are organon. Right? Well yeah, if you don't define what kind of knowledge.

Oh wait, the definition does that. I wonder why? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

KJS

[Maulik]

I'm glad the board is in accord with what I laid out and a watch being an organon. Shadymilkman is dogmatic and will not often back down, in the case its clear he should. Thanks guys.

[SHADYMILKMAN]

thanks mermade, thats the most helpful thing said so far. KJS on the other hand your taking it a bit too far, the knowledge/observation of the shoe is static, you never have to observe it again, maybe initially. why thats different from a watch is in so much that its a measurement. its different everytime you look at it. why isnt a watch a good example physical embodiement of a set/system of principles, yet a book is?

please elaborate about the situation and just say thats not what i think it means. that means just as much to me as me saying i think it means something else to you (in this particular case the majority of you think that im wrong, and i couldnt care less, just a bunch of opinions which is why i didnt want to use a message board to clarify). it at this point is a matter of interpretive opinion.

well all i have to say is that i disagree with the sentiments of this board. the forum (your home turf, which i told you what they would say, you knew it, i knew it, its the internet, no one here is an authority on etymology...) is not what i consider an accurate assessment of an interpretation of a/this definition. i have now taken the time to ask an authority and im waiting hopefully for an answer. whether im right or wrong you all will know. (i hope tha ti asked the right address).

maulik ill address you about that last post IRL. but suffice to say, thats dismissive.

[LuckOfTheDraw]

You could use a shoe to measure how much walking someone has been doing, for instance.

[KJS]

Is a blade of grass an organon? Why not?

KJS

[That Foreign Guy]

[ QUOTE ]

secondly that foreign guy, no your metaphor for what im saying is a gross misrepresentation of what is being said.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think my analogy is pretty accurate. I used the exact structure of the definition and two objects that are related in a similar way to "an instrument for acquiring knowledge" and "a body of principles of scientific or philosophic investigation"

By the way, I think that "instrument" here does not imply a physical object but rather "a means by which something is done"

[ QUOTE ]

if you consider time as a philosophy which it is, then looking at a watch is a philosophic investigation.


[/ QUOTE ]

Do you consider the Metric system a philosophy?

[ QUOTE ]

investigate: transitive verb: to observe or study by close examination and systematic inquiry.

if im not mistaken when you look at a watch to see what time it is then it is an investigation by definition (M-W)


[/ QUOTE ]

When I look at a watch the examination is not close nor is the enquiry systematic. Maybe if I was one of those guys who needed to know it was 9:47:58, 59, 9:48, 01, ... (I think they're called autistic) then it would be but just glancing at a watch is not a investigation.


[ QUOTE ]

so we have a standard to which were referencing. so it the limited phrasing of the definition. the principles set forth are the "standard/s" we use for time and its an application of said principles. in a similar fashion that physics is applied calculus.


[/ QUOTE ]
Huh?

[ QUOTE ]

i took the definition as an instrument for acquiring knowledge, you look at a watch you know what time it was when you looked at it. thats information that you didnt have before. hence the acquisition of the time.


[/ QUOTE ]
OK, and when I feel my hair blowing around I know it's windy but that doesn't make my hair an organon.

[ QUOTE ]

your currently knowledgeable about the time and can share that with others who dont know.


[/ QUOTE ]
For someone trying to win a forlorn semantic argument, you seem to lack some basic English skills.

In English, an organon is SPECIFICALLY a body of principles of scientific or philosophic investigation.

You have to ignore that vital part of the definition to include physical objects, so while we're being humpty dumpty (words mean whatever I tell them to), I say an icecream is an organon because when I eat it I know what flavour it is.

[LuckOfTheDraw]

Why is this even in EDF?

[SHADYMILKMAN]

^^ i dont have time this instant but ive read your discussion, ill reply in a little bit. lets not make this ugly its a word that were/im trying to sort out.

whats "edf" ?

[El Diablo]

LotD: "Why is this even in EDF?" Why not? OP taught me what an organon is, so that alone makes me consider this worthwhile. Haven't read the thread yet, though, so if it sucks I'll lock it up.

SM: El Diablo Forum.