Really, honestly, how can you believe that old book???

[David Sklansky]

"Please feel free to ignore this post once you realize you are stupid."

I am so jealous that, as one who gets a piece of the ad revenues here, I can't use that line and you can.

[tpir]

[ QUOTE ]
"Please feel free to ignore this post once you realize you are stupid."

I am so jealous that, as one who gets a piece of the ad revenues here, I can't use that line and you can.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's what gimmick accounts are for! Assuming you don't already have a few floating around [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[einbert]

The child mind is extremely malleable. Tell a child from a very young age that if he doesn't worship Jesus, he's going to BURN for eternity, and the result is simple. The vast majority of the time you get an adult who worships Jesus and "believes" the Bible wholeheartedly. Most of them never take the time to really question it, because if you think about it what practical value could actually come from that? If they question it and they're wrong they go to hell. If they question it and they're right they get no value out of it other than the satisfaction of knowing the truth. Don't forget that questioning the Bible is really held on par with blasphemy in the Christian church. Blasphemy is pretty important, as to some it's the only unforgivable sin (Matt. 12:31).

I think there are really good reasons for all these established structures within the religion. If Christianity were set up in a different way, it never would have lasted for almost two thousand years and been so widespread among the world population.

Let's just be thankful that the United States is overrun with people who generally just pray for the armageddon. It's a good thing they don't actually believe the rules of the Bible, because if they did the government would still be killing homosexuals because they are "an abomination unto the LORD", killing apostates for blasphemy, killing people for picking up sticks on the sabbath (Numbers 15:32-36) and who knows what else.

[Mempho]

The problem if you don't believe is simply that The Bible is written in such a way that there is always an out. It might help you to notice a few well-known points:

1) Lucifer was smart
2) Lucifer thought he had it all figured out
3) Lucifer "fell" for this
4) The message is: don't think you've got it all figured out (evolution debate, anyone)
5) There is always and, I mean, always a conspiracy
6) It's not paranoia because they're really out to get you
7) The Egyptian rulers conspired against the Israelites
8) The Pharisees conspired against the Christians
9) The Romans conspired against the Christians
10) The end of time is one gigantic conspiracy:
-One world government
-Antichrist
-War in the Middle East
-Anything that makes Christianity out to be a lie
is a just a lie waiting to be revealed

11) So, you see, from their perspective, it is all coming true (because the opposing evidence is a lie)

You come from the perspective of reason, so you desire evidence prior to buying into it. None of the other stuff is of significance to you. They come from a perspective of faith and always go from that prism.

When a Christian hears about evolution, they usually will go with one of the following choices:

1) God said it was different and I'm going to believe what God said despite any scientific evidence
2) The scientists are wrong.
3) It's an outright conspiracy against Christians and a lie
4) Evolution is possibly congruent with Creationism. After all, God has explained that he is timeless in many different ways "A day is as 1,000 years and 1,000 years is as a day"
5) I'm not sure about evolution, so I'll leave the topic alone
6) Evolution is true, Genesis 1 is allegorical
7) Evolution is true, Creationism is false, therefore I must reject the faith.

Just wanted to let you know what you're fighting. I should know. I've considered points 2-7 on the evolution debate.

[tame_deuces]

And that's only the natural sciences Mempho. Book it up to the social science for the real killers, who will easily explain when the simplified views of the world as proposed by many religions came to be, what influenced them and why they caught on.

Add it all together and you can't even claim to discuss a pro-biblical viewpoint when using only rationality and logic. And I don't want to base my world view on some belief where the arguments are stringed together with huuuuge ifs and inductive logic.

[Praxis101]

[ QUOTE ]
You have to have a dark, festering sadness for the human condition rotting out your soul...there are only nietzsche's words for it really.

[/ QUOTE ]

ok well i'm sure there's others too

[Mempho]

[ QUOTE ]

And that's only the natural sciences Mempho.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, forgive me, but I'm gonna pick on you for a second. I really think that people cop out with the whole natural sciences deal. They just shirk it off as unbelievable and move on and they never consider the scientific possibility.

Exhibit 1- The Red Sea

The idea that the parting of the Red Sea is unexplainable is not true. It is easily explainable.

[ QUOTE ]
From Exodus 14:

19 Then the angel of God, who had been traveling in front of Israel's army, withdrew and went behind them. The pillar of cloud also moved from in front and stood behind them, 20 coming between the armies of Egypt and Israel. Throughout the night the cloud brought darkness to the one side and light to the other side; so neither went near the other all night long.

21 Then Moses stretched out his hand over the sea, and all that night the LORD drove the sea back with a strong east wind and turned it into dry land. The waters were divided, 22 and the Israelites went through the sea on dry ground, with a wall of water on their right and on their left.

[/ QUOTE ]

Alright, the Egyptians are pursuing the Israelites and the Israelites have their backs to the wall and they're outnumbered. We can ascertain from the Bible that it was cloudy at one of the camps and clear at the other camp.

Look at a map of the Red Sea, the crossing point is likely to be on the northern end of the Red Sea in a region called the Gulf of Aqaba since they were trying to escape for Egypt. We know that there was an army base blocking an escape route due north (from evidence that still stands today), so they didn't have an escape route. Here's the map:


We also know that the wind is blowing really strong from the east. We also know that this area (the northern Red Sea) has what is primarily a northwest flow. This means that the wind direction was coming from the opposing direction of the flow and that it was very strong.

A strong east wind blew the water back and it did not happen instantenously quite some time.

This storm was likely a small-scale hurricane. Average water temperatures in the area easily support such a storm.
The likely point of crossing was a mid-sea shelf that is in existence today:



The walking distance across the sea at this bridge is 10 miles wide.

[Subfallen]

[ QUOTE ]
Subfallen,
Why do you think I am an example of an evangelical Christian? Please be specific. An example of a post I made would be nice.

I also have no idea who Josh McDowell is.

Please feel free to ignore this post once you realize you are stupid. If you do decide to reply, you may accuse me and everyone who doesn't agree with your specific worldview of being intellectually dishonest. This is okay, because I find irony from pompous retards to be very funny.

[/ QUOTE ]

A. You are obviously a personal-God-theist who tries to be intellectual about it---99% of these gems are EC's. If you're not, well pardon me.

B. I don't have any specific "worldview" (a painfully stupid word).

C. If you would care to resume any of our previous arguments that you stopped responding to (presumably once you realized you were being stupid), I'd be delighted to continue demolishing your silly assorted idealisms. Otherwise, go [censored] yourself.

Edit - Josh McDowell is just one example who has been mentioned many times on this board. Substitute your favorite apologist...Norman Geisler, Lee Strobel, William Lane Craig, heck...C.S. Lewis, G.K. Chesterton...I mean, who cares, Kant?

At any rate, it is undeniable that a HUGE segment of the EC population qualifies as clinically delusional regarding religion. I never said they all do.

[Subfallen]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You have to have a dark, festering sadness for the human condition rotting out your soul...there are only nietzsche's words for it really.

[/ QUOTE ]

ok well i'm sure there's others too

[/ QUOTE ]

"296 Alas, what are you after all, my written and painted thoughts! It was not long ago that you were still so colorful, young, and malicious, full of thorns and secret spices---you made me sneeze and laugh---and now? You have already taken off your novelty, and some of you are ready, I fear, to become truths: they already look so immortal, so pathetically decent, so dull! And has it ever been different? What things do we copy, writing and painting, we mandarins with Chinese brushes, we immortalizers of things that can be written---what are the only things we are able to paint? Alas, always only what is on the verge of withering and losing its fragrance! Alas, always only storms that are passing, exhausted, and feelings that are autumnal and yellow! Alas, always only birds that grew weary of flying and flew astray and now can be caught by hand---by our hand! We immortalize what cannot live and fly much longer---only weary and mellow things! And it is only your afternoon, you, my written and painted thoughts, for which alone I have colors, many colors perhaps, many motley caresses and fifty yellows and browns and greens and reds: but nobody will guess from that how you looked in your morning, you sudden sparks and wonders of my solitude, you my old beloved---wicked thoughts!"
- F.W. Nietzsche, Beyond Good and Evil (trans. Walter Kaufmann)

[img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[jogsxyz]

[ QUOTE ]
What corroborating evidence is there?? The BEST evidence I've heard is always shaky at best. You would think that things like a world-covering flood and ten plagues would have managed to be recorded by somebody or left physical evidence somewhere....

[/ QUOTE ]

The History Channel did show evidence of the much of the known world flooded. After embellishments it became the entire world.