($200) decisive 'bubble' hand - misplay of 55... ?

[patrick10]

not a regular tournament. tonight i was playing in a winner takes all [$200] tourney, i am chip leader with approx t11,00, villain sitting on about t10,000 and anohter insignificant on <t2000 (he is not a particularly strong player either... blinds are at 300 - 600 no antes.

i pick up 55 on the button and raise to 1800 - happy to take the pot down preflop or perhaps with a c- bet if an A or K come down on the flop. or of course trap if i hit the 5.

<font color="red"> MISTAKE A ? </font>

insignificant in the sb folds, BB villain takes 30 seconds then raises 2,500 on top of me. my reads so far on BB is that he is not a bad player, but overvalues hands like a8-aj, qj, qt, jt, even 9T- Especially in short handed play. i put him most likely on A9 - AQ, [but possibly KT-KQ, QT, QJ.]

i consider pushing, but decide to just call- leaving me with approx 6,700 after the flop <font color="red"> MISTAKE B ? </font> - either to push [about 4/5 the pot] or enough for me to still play and win with if i need to fold after a scary flop.

NB; at this point i did not have an accurate chip count of him, just that his stack was realtively even to mine, i wasnt sure if i had him covered but i think this is only a minor mistake as the loser of this hand would likely have only 1BB or so left if we went all in . <font color="red"> MISTAKE C ? </font>

so pot is t8,900 out of a total of 23,000. FLOP comes T, 7 , 2 rainbow. BB checks. I 95% believe he has not hit this flop. i fire out around t4,500 - leaving myself with about 2000 - essentially i want him to think that i want to be called.

<font color="red"> MISTAKE D ? </font>

he goes into the tank for like 2 minutes almost. verbalises he is sure i have pockets. then verbalises he thinks mine are above 10. i then make another potential mistake.. syaing : ' i think i have you beat at the moment, i think you need to hit one of your cards exactly to beat me'
<font color="red"> MISTAKE E? </font>

i dont know if it was what i said or how i said it, but i regretted talking straight afterwards. he lets on that he too has pockets. almost folds for a moment- i really thought he was going to. but he makes the raises all in for an extra 1000 - or so, leaving me with about 1,100.


the results are below in white i hope, it is too late for me to stay up and post results later.

i would love to hear your comments and thoughts on teh various mistakes I think i made - whetehr you would have made them too, and also how you would have played the hand differently.

*i am guessing alot of you would either push preflop, check the flop or push on the flop.

Thanks in advance guys.

<font color="white"> i call quickly- (1000 into an 18000 pot) hoping to god that he flips up 33 or 44. alas he flips up 99 and no 5s come to save me on the turn or river. i bust out next hand with J3 against his 63 when i hit a wheel and he hits the nuts. </font>

[Gotmilk]

You basically just have a fold preflop.

If you are truly convinced that the 5's are good and you don't think you otherwise have a large edge in the match, you can justify pushing (but not calling).

Only one scenario where just calling is ok: A.) You believe you are a dog in the match. B.) You believe you are beaten C.) You'll bust him if you flop a set.

I don't think any of the posturing in the hand really makes a huge difference, but yes you might have tipped your hand.

[patrick10]

at the time of my raise i honestly thoguht i was ahead with pair 5s, and that he'd be bust if he called and could not hit one of his overcards. this was of course because my read was off and did not include any pockets.

perhaps i just didnt respect him enough, though i suspect i just extremely doubted that 2 out of 3 players remaining would be dealt pockets. i am close minded damnit. this could have been my biggest mistake.

it also could have been greed/ impatience- trying to win quickly- when i know i could have a great shot aginst him headsup.

does anyone else experience something similar ? occasionally (or more than) putting opponents on weaker holdings than they actually have ?? i am guessing it could have something to do with having too large an ego- first disrespecting the opponent and secondly believing i can outplay them anyway.

ps. i am obviously not that great yet, just being brutally honest

[patrick10]

would you really fold 55 preflop from the button when the sb is likely to fold (he was quite weak-tight) or possibly shove any hand because of his extremes stack- where 55 would be the favourite alot of the time ?

the initial bet also allowed a 2nd chance to take down the pot if the flop had a high card... i had built up a table image as a rock (accidentally- i didnt get a hand better than 33 for 2 hours and only stole blinds once). BB's raise was just not convincing to me in that situation. it was just 1 BB above a min raise, and from his previous play i thoguht he would make that raise with anythign as low as Qj, AT KJ 9t SOOTED etc


now that i think of it, i won the hand before this one without showdown against BB villain, so perhaps this made him more likely to call and believe i had a weaker hand than TT-AA ..

i would really tend to think that 55 is a profitable hand 3 handed

any thoughts?

did i also get a bit unlucky running into higher pockets- on top of making about 5 mistakes? not looking for sympathy here but i would love to hear someone say that they wouldve ended up in the same ditch as me
[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Gotmilk]

Sorry, I meant a fold preflop AFTER reraised. I should also say that usually a reraise of 2500 in that spot means business, if his range is that wide and he's making 2500 raises in that spot he's probably fairly tough to play against shorthanded and you should loosen up and shove (like I said in my original post, you can justify a push--vs such a loose range it is both for value and preemptive of having to keep play vs annoying reraises). The problem is I just don't buy that he is reraising that light here.

[patrick10]

thanks heaps for the replies gotmilk, hopefully there'll be more when i wake up

[BoomerWard]

Pat, I always thought small pairs were very valuable late in tournaments with high blinds too, til I read Dan Harrington Vols 2 and 3. He points out a few times in there just how treacherous small pairs can be in those situations. the problem is you just often have no idea where you stand with a small pair at that stage. with 10,000 chips and 50/100 blinds, sure, you have plenty of chips to bet for info and find out where you stand. But late, with high blinds, it's tough to play a PP. Dan says that a PP late in a tournament w/ high blinds is in it's best position preflop ordinarily, so he favors either folds or raises or re-raises, all in if necessary. I never realized til I read Dan's Vols 2 and 3 just how treacherous small pairs can be late in tournies. I love his volumes 1-3, they clarified tons of things for me RE: tournies and sngs--especially how to play late in them.

[BoomerWard]

Patrick, I actually experienced a similar beat in a very important tournament, now that I think of it. I made the same error you did. I exited the 2005 WSOP Main Event on Day 3 with pocket 6's. I was on the button with the 66. Sam farha, in middle position, who had of course been active, did not get in this hand, nor did anyone else. I was on the button and my stack, about 30 - 35,000 (1,000, 2000 blinds w/ antes I think it was).

I categorize my error in this hand as "not knowing what I was looking for." Or, "not having a consistent strategy of what I was hoping for in this hand." I made one of the same mistakes you made, trying to act like I had a really big monster by making big bets that looked like value bets. The problem was that once I was called on those semi-bluffs, my stack was crippled.

here's what happened: the hand folded around to me, like I said, farha folded for once. I was an opening to steal the blinds at the very least. I raised to about 10,000 to go, only leaving myself with 20-25,000 chips. The Sb folded, but the Bb, Brad Kondraki (who I did not know at the time was pretty good; he went on to make the Final Table) -- Brad had the KT off suit. I had no particular read on Brad, but he called my raise. The flop came T T 5, and I found myself in a similar predicament that you were in. With the board pairing, and my stack short, I decided I had to make a move. Brad checked, and I bet out 10,000 again. Brad moved all in, and I only had 15,000 chips -- crippled. I decided I had no choice but to call. No 6 turned or rivered, and I was out.

In retrospect, I should have just moved all in preflop I think.

Boomer

[lastchance]

I think you clearly need to push/fold when it gets reraised back to you.

[patrick10]

thanks heaps for the advice boomer and others.

lastchance i think this could be my main error. although i did consider it, but decided that with my remaining stack, i would have a better chance of muscling him out of the pot if he didnt hit the flop than preflop.

i am pretty suprised i havent received any abuse, when i typed up the hand i just shook my head, it really seems like a stupid line to take in retrospect- though i have to convey to you guys, this guy had drunk over 10-12 beers last night and was not as good as the players you would normally face..

cheers, pat