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  #31  
Old 11-04-2007, 07:10 PM
jme1222 jme1222 is offline
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Default Re: Any major leaks how I played this??

[ QUOTE ]
It's a 22 dollar tournament and you are playing a breakeven low-stakes player. You raised preflop in position. People play horribly and over-value hands oop in raised pots. This is the reason we raise in position and play tight oop. You are giving villain way too much credit.

We don't have a read that villain doesn't play marginal hands this way. We have tptk on a dry board in a 22. Some villains are just not capable of making a normal-sized raise. It doesn't automatically mean "i have the nuts." I'm sure I could dig up plenty of hh's where i get 4bet or 5bet and villain is just over-playing top pair or some garbage draw. It's just such a standard play at this buyin level.

[/ QUOTE ]


The bolded parts are soooooooooo true. At first it was hard for me to break the common "min re raise=nuts" way of thinking, but after you look people up often enough you will find that MOST PEOPLE just don't understand how to bet. So it's not really some crazy nutty hand most of the time, it's middle pair, a draw, or a bluff trying to "save" chips.
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  #32  
Old 11-04-2007, 08:29 PM
mjws00 mjws00 is offline
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Default Re: Any major leaks how I played this??

I never see these 4 bet 5 bet things. But after he raises I am betting 1/2 or more of whatever he has left and calling a shove. I want the money in before something kills my action or he connects. Glad I'm not the only one going broke.

With a good read, I could flat call this and evaluate the turn. A semi passive donking into me for pot or shoving after a cr is throwing up some serious "your tptk is beat". If he is aggro enough he might do that with air or 2nd pair I already got it in on the flop. Anything less and he makes a decision for all his chips.

I do think the check minraise 4bet line by most villians is almost always 2 pair or better trying to get us in gently. He might stab at that flop if we are cbetting maniacs and he is frustrated. They usually play the turn face up after this little move.

As I said, glad to see better players than me go broke. But I'm not opposed to giving villian a little credit when he screams 'I have it'. So often they play it face up on later streets and will let us showdown or get away cheaply when they go into their donk extract mode.

Mike
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  #33  
Old 11-05-2007, 07:20 AM
tmcdmck tmcdmck is offline
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Default Re: Any major leaks how I played this??

chicagory, my post was not serious, it was meant to point out the foolishness of greg's post (i hoped that would be made clear by my post starting just below it starting "but seriously")
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  #34  
Old 11-05-2007, 09:40 AM
soop soop is offline
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Default Re: Any major leaks how I played this??

[ QUOTE ]
I'm sure I could dig up plenty of hh's where i get 4bet or 5bet and villain is just over-playing top pair or some garbage draw. It's just such a standard play at this buyin level.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've played lots of 22's. I have 8 hands where villian raises me twice on the flop and we get to showdown.

6 out of 8 villian had tpwk (out of all the hands none of these guys ever had a kicker higher than 6)
1 out of 8 villian had two pair.
1 out of 8 villian had nut straight.

But ... in BOTH hands where villian had 2p/str, the flop action went min raise/4-bet small. In ALL of the other hands it went raise/all-in. Granted it's a small sample, but pretty interesting nonetheless.

I think tmc's advice is actually pretty good here. You should get the money in here normally (i.e. if he pushes), but this line stinks so much of a big hand you can think about laying it down.
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  #35  
Old 11-05-2007, 01:09 PM
bpmst2 bpmst2 is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2007
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Default Re: Any major leaks how I played this??

Thank you all for your input.. I know I played it poorly and was looking for the best line to take here. A lot of interesting perspectives, but it seems the general consensus is that my re-raise was far too weak, which would give me a better line on his hand.
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