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#1
08-14-2007, 12:18 PM
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Why is my rakeback *negative* on FT?
I never played on FT before. Decided that I would like a bankroll there before playing, so I am mentally cool with a bad beat or two, so deposited 6k via 4 MoneyBrookers transfers before playing.
Anyway, I played 2 short sessions now, checked my rb and it shows: Rake: $ -159.91 Rakeback Made: $ -43.18 I emailed my rb provider who said: [ QUOTE ] Full Tilt deduct for a number of things from a player's rake before they calculate rakeback. 1) Bonus 2) Deposit transaction fees (you should not withdraw and re-deposit unnecessarily) 3) Items bought in the FT store 4) Any tournaments you enter where there is a guaranteed prize and there is a shortfall in players. [/ QUOTE ] Re #1: I was told that the 'Bonus' deduction has not been added yet. Re #2: I have not withdrawn any money yet Re #3: I have made no purchases in the FT store Re #4: I don't play tournaments. From this, my rakeback provider has replied with: [ QUOTE ] OK so it's just the Moneybookers transaction fees. This seems to be about 3% from your numbers. This is typical, I believe Neteller is the same [/ QUOTE ] So I emailed pretty much everything I said so far to FT to find out wtf is going on becaues me losing rb becasue I deposit money so they can make rb from me is ludicrous. Eventually nailed it down to: [ QUOTE ] Can you please explain exactly how the following are calculated? > Bonus – bonuses a player earns such as a deposit bonus > Player Fees – Transaction fees when players deposit money onto the site. In particular, the cost of deposits from: - MoneyBrookers - Credit card [/ QUOTE ] To which they replied with: [ QUOTE ] Bonuses is the deposit bonus that you are working off and transaction fees are fees that FullTilt pays payment processors on your behalf. These values are deducted from your Rakeback affiliates commission that we pay them for your play. It is this commission that your affiliate uses to pay Rakeback. If the affiliate did not profit from your play then you will not receive a Rakeback. [/ QUOTE ] Which was pretty fkn rude if you ask me. I replied with: [ QUOTE ] I would still like my question answered: > Can you please explain exactly how the following are calculated? > > > Bonus – bonuses a player earns such as a deposit bonus > > Player Fees – Transaction fees when players deposit money onto the site. > > In particular, the cost of deposits from: > - MoneyBrookers > - Credit card [/ QUOTE ] Reply: [ QUOTE ] Bonuses is the deposit bonus that you are working off and transaction fees are fees that FullTilt pays payment processors on your behalf. These values are deducted from your Rakeback affiliates commission that we pay them for your play. It is this commission that your affiliate uses to pay Rakeback. If the affiliate did not profit from your play then you will not receive a Rakeback. [/ QUOTE ] Does this make sense to anyone? If they get charged money for a deposit, why are they not passing this on to the depositor at time of deposit? This means that someone who doesn't have rb never pays. So why on earth am I paying via losing rakeback? It makes NO SENSE AT ALL. On top of that, they don't disclose the fee and can rip me off for any percent which can well be above any fee they are actually paying. I'm pretty close to just withdrawing all my money and saying F8CK YOU to FTP. I'm a professional gambler and they have a chance to earn an enormous amount of rake from me, but chose to bend me over and rape me instead? How can I possibly allow them to earn money off me after doing that? 
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#3
08-14-2007, 01:16 PM
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Re: Why is my rakeback *negative* on FT?
Most players don't get rakeback so it only affects a small %. Full Tilt is eating most of this fee, they deduct it from MGR and you eat 27% of it. Other players don't get charged this but then again they don't get rakeback. Full Tilt considers it the cost of acquiring a player and passes it on. A few other sites do the same thing. Full Tilt has always done this and it has never been a secret.
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#7
08-14-2007, 08:08 PM
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Re: Why is my rakeback *negative* on FT?
[ QUOTE ]
Atleast you are not playing UB/Absolute where they deduct 20% from your MGR every month for 'transaction fees' even when you havnt deposited or withdrew. [/ QUOTE ] i do no believe this i true at all
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#8
08-14-2007, 08:54 PM
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Re: Why is my rakeback *negative* on FT?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Atleast you are not playing UB/Absolute where they deduct 20% from your MGR every month for 'transaction fees' even when you havnt deposited or withdrew. [/ QUOTE ] i do no believe this i true at all [/ QUOTE ] An affiliate can chime in with the real answer, but I'm pretty sure they made a change to something like this for US players.
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#9
08-15-2007, 10:44 AM
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Re: Why is my rakeback *negative* on FT?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Atleast you are not playing UB/Absolute where they deduct 20% from your MGR every month for 'transaction fees' even when you havnt deposited or withdrew. [/ QUOTE ] i do no believe this i true at all [/ QUOTE ] An affiliate can chime in with the real answer, but I'm pretty sure they made a change to something like this for US players. [/ QUOTE ] I'm not an affiliate but from what I've read they take 5% or so depending on their overall fees and divide them among all US players whether they deposit or not.
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#10
08-15-2007, 06:56 PM
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Re: Why is my rakeback *negative* on FT?
Every player pays the fee through rake. Rakeback is essentially the site giving some of the profit it has made off of you back to you. Since they don't charge you the fees and cover it for you, they have to cover the fee with your rake until you start turning them a profit. Once you turn them a profit, they start to give you some of that profit.
It's not like they are gonna transfer the negative rakeback out of your account. How is this unfair or dodgy?
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