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#41
09-18-2007, 11:38 AM
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Re: Evil Atheism.
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[ QUOTE ] Do atheists believe in an inherent goodness in man or do they see man as simply an advanced animal? Ducy being simply an advanced animal lends itself to cold calculated decision making? Its because this is a zero sum game so YTF should i care about that 'animal'. If i want his money il take it. Fair enough i will lose some of my own sense of righteousness, encourage this kind of behaviour in society and maybe lose contact with associates, but who cares im poor and hungry. This is how atheism leads to cold selfish logic. [/ QUOTE ] I knew this FAQ I wrote would come in handy: [ QUOTE ] Question 3B: Even if atheists can tell right from wrong, don't they have no incentive to live a moral life, given that there is no God overseeing their actions and no afterlife in which to be rewarded or punished? Answer 3B: Once again, a theist asking this question is implying that they themselves are amoral psychopaths who only live a moral life because they are afraid of God looking over their shoulder. The simple answer is that most people live a moral life because they want to - because it makes them happy to do so. (Of course, some people also live in fear of Earthly punishment. It is pretty safe to conclude that theft would be more widespread if there were no punishment for it). If atheists were more likely to be criminals, we would expect to see them over-represented in prisons, but what data there is suggests that the opposite is true. [/ QUOTE ] OP, is it your position that you yourself would sell your own mother for a few bucks if it wasn't for God looking over your shoulder? If not, why not? Also, if your theories about how people work were true, we would expect nobody to care about what other people thought of the way they were living their lives. In the real world, people spend most of their time obsessing over what other people think of them. [/ QUOTE ] If I was a theist, I could knock this question out of the park. I'm continually surprised that a) theists who are completely unprepared choose to bring up the subject of "atheists must kill and rape everyone" and b) these same theists can't figure out the immediate workaround. Ok, I feel to Sklanskyish by not giving my proposed solution to this problem, so here goes. "It is impossible for me to imagine how I would act if it weren't for God, maybe I really would kill anyone and anything, and maybe you would too." 
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#42
09-18-2007, 11:40 AM
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Re: Evil Atheism.
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Anything can be fought in "the name" of something ...It doesn't mean that that was the real reason for the war...Wars are usually about power, about gain, about domination, from fear...They just historically used the name of religion to justify it to the masses...Look at Hitler...he spoon fed Germany some twisted form of theism and basically made up his own ideology to carry out his own plans... Wars are from people's motives not necessarily as a byproduct of religion..Do people misinterpret religion: all the time but that doesn't necessarily make religion guilty...History can write the actual events, but can only speculate at the motives... [/ QUOTE ] So, you get to dismiss the stated reasons, because "anything can be in the name of something," but then you get to just claim by fiat that all wars are about power. Cool super power you have there. Let me try: Any war can be claimed to be fought over power, but the real reason people have wars is over differences of ideology.
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#44
09-18-2007, 02:30 PM
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Re: Evil Atheism.
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Do atheists believe in an inherent goodness in man or do they see man as simply an advanced animal? [/ QUOTE ] False dilemma. These alternatives aren't mutually exclusive, nor do they cover all possible views about the nature of man. And in any case, atheism doesn't necessarily imply either of them. My view (atheist) is that yes, man is an animal. We are advanced in our cognitive ability, which, unlike other animals, induces the emergent characteristics of volition and free will. This, in turn, implies the need to live by a code of ethics. Some men are mostly "good," and others are mostly not. [ QUOTE ] Ducy being simply an advanced animal lends itself to cold calculated decision making? Its because this is a zero sum game so YTF should i care about that 'animal'. If i want his money il take it. [/ QUOTE ] Non-sequitur. The capacity to reason and the ability to apply the rules of logic doesn't necessarily imply a particular code of ethics. It certainly doesn't imply the immoral one you suggest. Would becoming a thief *really* be conducive to you living a happy and prosperous life, even in the absence of god? For me, it would profoundly contradict the foundation of my moral sense. [ QUOTE ] Fair enough i will lose some of my own sense of righteousness, encourage this kind of behaviour in society and maybe lose contact with associates, but who cares im poor and hungry. [/ QUOTE ] Now you've lost me. [ QUOTE ] This is how atheism leads to cold selfish logic. [/ QUOTE ] Atheism leads to nothing of the sort. An atheist could be rational or irrational, selfish or altruistic. It doesn't imply a particular set values, nor the ability to use logic. [ QUOTE ] Atheism so far is a 'luxury' of the intellectual and rich so far but when it spreads to poorer less priviledged areas can u see how it could be harmful? [/ QUOTE ] Though it's possible a secular philosophy can be more irrational and destructive than a particular theistic one, I don't see how atheism by itself would like be "harmful," any more than the rejection of astrology would be harmful. [ QUOTE ] But even so i see atheism as information that basically says we are not special and (so) neither are your actions. [/ QUOTE ] Atheism doesn't necessarily imply this, and in any case, it's unclear what you mean by "special," and what that supposedly says about ethics. Certain other individuals are in fact very special to me, and all other people are special in the sense of my general benevolence towards my fellow man, except those who give me reason to feel otherwise. This is again part of my primary moral sense. Like I wrote in my first post, you seem rather confused.
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#46
09-18-2007, 04:30 PM
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Re: Evil Atheism.
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[ QUOTE ] Fair enough i will lose some of my own sense of righteousness, encourage this kind of behaviour in society and maybe lose contact with associates, but who cares im poor and hungry. [/ QUOTE ] Now you've lost me. By this i was trying to give an example of a poor person living an atheistic life. I have said before that atheism in its current rich, intellectual(?) environment is not such a bad thing. Atheism is not evil but its disregard for the (fictional?) righteousness of humans cam lead to selfish actions especially in people not well off who wouldnt benefit so much from a pro social life: Mentally Ill,poor, stupid etc. [ QUOTE ] This is how atheism leads to cold selfish logic. [/ QUOTE ] [/ QUOTE ]
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#49
09-18-2007, 10:18 PM
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Re: Evil Atheism.
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btw, I think that would be a terrible strategy anyway, since religious belief doesn't seem to prove as much of a deterrent to "immoral" behavior. [/ QUOTE ] Hard to say because it could just be that wicked people are drawn to religion, so the fact that they have comparable criminality is actually evidence of the grand neutering effect of religion. That might be a little far-fetched though.
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#50
09-19-2007, 12:12 AM
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Re: Evil Atheism.
Religion has a power to sedate and control the masses like nothing else does. Heralding under the preface of religion in less criticized by the believer because it leverages off of already held faith, and most importantly a higher power.
The fact that Atheism has no higher power makes it inherently harder to control the masses with it. It is not impossible to use it as a social or political manipulator, but it does not come with ease as it does for religion. Any idea or thought can be used for 'evil'. Realistically, the only decision we can make is to stay away from ideas with higher propensity for things we feel are 'evil'.
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