QQ in the BB, whats the right level of aggression here

sfetaz · #1 10-16-2007, 10:39 PM

I do not have my stats available to me that I had at the time of the hand, but I remember the villian to be a moderate player in terms of VP$P and agression.

Full Tilt 0.50/1 Hold'em (8 handed) Full Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, 1 fold, Button raises, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, UTG+1 folds, MP2 calls, Button calls.

Flop: (11.50 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, MP2 calls, Button raises, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (8.75 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP2 checks, Button bets, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

River: (11.75 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP2 checks, Button bets, Hero calls, MP2 folds.

Final Pot: 13.75 BB

JSmith2007 · #2 10-16-2007, 10:41 PM

3-bet the flop. C/R turn and bet the river.

This looks standard as Ax. They will turn over AK-A8 or so enough times for this to be profitable moreso than they turn over AA, KK, JJ or any other set to beat you.

Xylocain · #3 10-16-2007, 10:49 PM

I would at least raise the flop and lead or c-r turn because:
1. MP2 is providing a magnificient overlay (as long as no [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] shows...)
2. Button didnt cap which for most people scews their rainge heavily away from AA and KK.

I expect to see a smaller PP... how about JJ?

sfetaz · #4 10-16-2007, 10:54 PM

My reads at the time of the hand suspected pocket Jacks, Pocket 10's or even pocket 9's, so the jack coming out did put a bit of vomit in my mouth.

Dr. Matt · #5 10-16-2007, 11:27 PM

3-bet the flop and go from there.

OziBattler · #6 10-16-2007, 11:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
My reads at the time of the hand suspected pocket Jacks, Pocket 10's or even pocket 9's, so the jack coming out did put a bit of vomit in my mouth.

[/ QUOTE ]

stetaz, this range is too narrow and if you always fear the worst youll find yourself playing weaktight more than playing tightaggressive. He can easily have other hands such as AK and big diamonds.

apart from value, if you 3 bet the flop you should find the rest of the hand easier to play because youll get him to tell you how much he likes his hand when you say "I HAS BIG PAIR AND I DONT CARE WHAT YOU HAVE!" with a 3 bet. Sure, you could argue that you are giving away info about your hands but with another player in the flop there is no need to get fancy just yet.

marchron · #7 10-17-2007, 01:12 AM

[ QUOTE ]
whats the right level of aggression here

[/ QUOTE ]
More than this. Three-bet the flop please.

choupeo · #8 10-17-2007, 03:46 AM

[ QUOTE ]
3-bet the flop. C/R turn and bet the river.

This looks standard as Ax. They will turn over AK-A8 or so enough times for this to be profitable moreso than they turn over AA, KK, JJ or any other set to beat you.

[/ QUOTE ]

As far as I understand, the c-r is for value, right ?
If villian calls hero's 3-bet, should hero still c-r the turn ?

Same question, if villian cap flop, should hero still c-r the turn ?

Mitke · #9 10-17-2007, 04:10 AM

* grunch *

Weak - postflop.

As BTN didn't cap preflop he doesn't have AA or KK or AK diamonds - most of the time. Although you stated BTN is moderately aggressive, I assume that means he's not as aggressive as promoted here. So we cannot totally overrule him having one of those hands, they're just not very likely.

He might have a FD + one overcard but that is usually the best draw he can have on you. Then there is the limp + cold-caller MP2 = overlay you can and should exploit.

The flop is relatively uncoordinated bar the FD but we cannot overrule MP2 limping after one limper with a hand like 54s or 43s.

We probably have a huge edge on the flop, have a very good redraw (for FH and Q-high flush) if villains should hit a flush on turn. Just jam the flop for value and protection.

Lead on the flop is good, not raising is bad. The BTN most likely either has a smaller pocket pair than you or is raising for a free card. You might get the to cap if he thinks you might be semibluffing AK-AJ of diamons or similar and decides to protect 99-JJ.

The turn brings more draws and you still don't raise? I might actually lead the turn in hope of either trapping him for 1BB between us and the BTN's possible raise or getting him to fold a 6-4 out hand like 65, 54, 64, 53, A6, A5, A3 in fear a raise behind.

The turn being checked through would be a disaster: we'd lose value and give a free card to the many possible draws there. At least you should have c-raised the turn when given the chance.

River is a relatively blank card. As MP2 looks like he's been drawing all the way I'd be more inclined to choose a line that extracts 2BB from the BTN, doesn't risk the river being checked around. I'd bet/call. MP2 might even call in between but we cannot 3-bet if BTN raises in fear of weirdly played AA/KK or JJ.

Mitke · #10 10-17-2007, 04:22 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
3-bet the flop. C/R turn and bet the river.

This looks standard as Ax. They will turn over AK-A8 or so enough times for this to be profitable moreso than they turn over AA, KK, JJ or any other set to beat you.

[/ QUOTE ]

As far as I understand, the c-r is for value, right ?
If villian calls hero's 3-bet, should hero still c-r the turn ?

Same question, if villian cap flop, should hero still c-r the turn ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Turn c/r would IMO be for both, more value vs BTN and for protection to maybe lose MP2 from the big pot.

If villain just calls Hero's 3-bet on the flop we should lead the turn, not c/r - there'd be too much of chance the turn being checked around, which would be very bad.

Villain capping the flop is more tricky. We could assume he does that with QQ+ and maybe with TT-JJ and AK/AJ diamonds. He definitely caps 66/22 but those are rare. I still might lead the turn to get ovarlya from MP2 for the times we are behind and call down if BTN raises.