Poll for NotReady

[arahant]

Please vote only if you are NotReady

[Lestat]

Jesus finds all who are worthy.

[Sephus]

notready 9/9/06

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Can you at least agree that, had you been born and raised in Iraq, you would almost certainly have "heard" Allah's voice, and would likely be a Muslim right now?


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There are many in the West who are not Christians, and some throughout the world who are, including Muslim countries. God controls all the circumstances of the universe. That I was born here and eventually became a Christian is not an accident.

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[Prodigy54321]

God makes sure that the people who are most likely to reject Him are born in non-Christian countries...

probably so that they do not damn us all...praise the Lord for he is good.

[ShakeZula06]

I don't know how you could possibly vote no.

[m_the0ry]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know how you could possibly vote no.

[/ QUOTE ]

as a few people have pointed out a strong belief in 'fate' (or some form of preconceptive determinism) can lead to someone honestly believing the answer to this question is no.

A better question might be, how can you say no to this question and not be a bigot as it implies one's environment as decided by fate is what determines if they are worthy of salvation.

[PairTheBoard]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't know how you could possibly vote no.

[/ QUOTE ]

as a few people have pointed out a strong belief in 'fate' (or some form of preconceptive determinism) can lead to someone honestly believing the answer to this question is no.

A better question might be, how can you say no to this question and not be a bigot as it implies one's environment as decided by fate is what determines if they are worthy of salvation.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the reason NotReady doesn't have a problem with this is because he adheres to the Calvinist Doctrine of the "Elect". I suspect that it's for just these types of problems that the Elect Doctrine was created. To my mind it is just another Solution that actually Compounds the problems produced by the belief that eternal punishment waits for those who do not believe the right thing. The real solution is to scrap that tenet and adopt a view of Christianity and its place among World Religions along the lines presented by Sullivan Here.

From Andrew Sullivan's Final Reply in the debate with Harris
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(5) There is a God, but all of our religions have distorted Her reality. Jesus was a man more suffused with divinity than any other human being who has ever lived. God loves everyone and has never been concerned about what a person believes, except that a person know God and accept God's love freely and expresses that love toward everyone he or she encounters. Jesus uniquely showed us how to accept God's love and how to be worthy of it. After death, all people, Christians and non-Christians, simply merge with the Deity in a loving embrace. But Jesus was the proof that such love exists, and that it is divine and eternal, and that it cares for us.

(6) None of us knows anything about these things.

I guess I've tipped my hand by endorsing (5) but acknowledging the wisdom of (6).
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I realize NotReady is the most fun to argue with because his positions are so malodorous to your Spiritual sensibilities. It's fun to see how he tries to justify them. Just be aware that they do not define Christianity.

PairTheBoard

[NotReady]

[bigpooch]

I could not choose one since both choices would be valid...
Do you see why? ("If pigs could fly...")

[David Sklansky]

There is actually little difference between Muslims and Christians. They both believe that there is an omnipotent designer that pays particular attention to humans and will sometimes let them remain conscious after their death.

The fact that they differ over minor details with such fervor and that there are so many different subsets of these religions that also differ with fervor, is pretty strong evidence that they are all idiots for being so sure of these details. On the other hand the real truth is that the fervor about those details is of the shallow kind. By that I mean that almost all religious people would be tickeled pink to find out that some other monotheistic religion was true, if such information meant that the general God mentioned earlier certainly existed. That probably includes Not Ready, especially since his better arguments relate to that general god. The only ones who would be shaken would be those who are in hot water if God doesn't forgive serial, serious, sinners.

So even though it is kind of fun to make fun of theists who stupidly think that their specific religion is objectively and obviously the truth, (by bringing up those who think that about other religions), atheists should concentrate on giving reasons why the more general personal god doesn't make much sense.