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  #1  
Old 11-22-2007, 12:53 PM
npknhldr npknhldr is offline
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Default 30/60 turn spot

I raise AcTc in HJ, HU w/ bb, flop 96c5c.

He c/c.

Turn is offsuit 7. (9657 board). He c/r.

I b/3bet. spew? plan for hand?
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  #2  
Old 11-22-2007, 01:55 PM
pohuist pohuist is offline
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Default Re: 30/60 turn spot

I like the 3 bet. It will likely get you a free showdown if you don't improve and an extra bet if you do. You have 12 outs to nuts + 6 outs to top pair which may be good and you have enough hand to showdown u/i. Assuming he just calls the 3 bet, I check behing the river u/i and bet if I hit at least a pair.
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  #3  
Old 11-22-2007, 01:56 PM
PokerBob PokerBob is offline
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Default Re: 30/60 turn spot

[ QUOTE ]
I raise AcTc in HJ, HU w/ bb, flop 96c5c.

He c/c.

Turn is offsuit 7. (9657 board). He c/r.

I b/3bet. spew? plan for hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

why did you bet the turn?

3betting is amazingly bad.
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  #4  
Old 11-22-2007, 04:49 PM
*TT* *TT* is offline
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Default Re: 30/60 turn spot

not sure what is worse, betting the turn or 3-betting the turn. both actions were horrible.
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  #5  
Old 11-22-2007, 05:40 PM
PokerBob PokerBob is offline
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Default Re: 30/60 turn spot

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I raise AcTc in HJ, HU w/ bb, flop 96c5c.

He c/c.

Turn is offsuit 7. (9657 board). He c/r.

I b/3bet. spew? plan for hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

why did you bet the turn?

3betting is amazingly bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let me explain.

When he calls the flop on this board, he either has (a) a pair (b) a club draw (c) a gutshot or (d) nothing. When the turn card comes, he still has all of these things except for (c). It is quite possible that he is bluffing with something dumb like QT on this turn, but if he is, you have the best hand and have him drawing near dead. Let him barrel away. The only thing that happens when you 3bet the turn is that he either folds a worse hand or caps it with a straight. This is basically what happens when you bet, too. Check and take the free card.
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  #6  
Old 11-22-2007, 06:57 PM
John Ryan John Ryan is offline
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Default Re: 30/60 turn spot

Take the free turn card. Never 3-bet here. If you are in the habit of three betting flush draws against what damn sure looks like a straight on the turn, you are hemorrhaging money.
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  #7  
Old 11-22-2007, 07:08 PM
prophet73 prophet73 is offline
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Default Re: 30/60 turn spot

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I raise AcTc in HJ, HU w/ bb, flop 96c5c.

He c/c.

Turn is offsuit 7. (9657 board). He c/r.

I b/3bet. spew? plan for hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

why did you bet the turn?

3betting is amazingly bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let me explain.

When he calls the flop on this board, he either has (a) a pair (b) a club draw (c) a gutshot or (d) nothing. When the turn card comes, he still has all of these things except for (c). It is quite possible that he is bluffing with something dumb like QT on this turn, but if he is, you have the best hand and have him drawing near dead. Let him barrel away. The only thing that happens when you 3bet the turn is that he either folds a worse hand or caps it with a straight. This is basically what happens when you bet, too. Check and take the free card.

[/ QUOTE ]

Without a specific read on the BB or the OP's table image, why can't we bet that turn? I don't think it's horrible.

BB could be a loose player who holds some type of suited 7 in his hand and just paired up or if the OP has been playing fairly solid then a semi-bluff with around 7-12 outs isn't horrible, IMO.

If BB does have a flush draw as you said, then it's a good turn bet. If the BB does have a pair, he either made two pair or is stuck with one pair on a scary board and he might smooth call or even fold. If BB hit his straight and raises, then Hero can simply call getting 6:1 with anywhere from 7-9 outs for the win, 0 or 3 for a chop. Plus a straight might pay him off if a club hits anyway.

I think it just depends on the BB and Hero's image.

3-bet is amazingly bad though, as you said.
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  #8  
Old 11-22-2007, 07:46 PM
Garland Garland is offline
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Default Re: 30/60 turn spot

3-betting is really bad. You're going to cost yourself 2 more big bets for your draw if 4-bet by an 8.

I don't see why so many people say betting the turn is so bad sans read on BB and being heads up. It's only a "bad bet" because of the check-raise, which we didn't know was coming. If BB folded what could have been overs, a small pocket pair, or a piece of the board with no draw, the result would have been a good one (and we probably wouldn't see this post). It's a semi-bluff turn bet, but don't take it to the extreme by 3-betting your gutshot+nut flush draw. It's only marginally pretty on the turn, especially since it's almost a lock that BB has one of your outs.

Garland
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  #9  
Old 11-22-2007, 08:43 PM
formula72 formula72 is offline
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Default Re: 30/60 turn spot

what exactly are you representing?
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  #10  
Old 11-22-2007, 09:36 PM
cgrohman cgrohman is offline
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Default Re: 30/60 turn spot

But by checking the turn we lose value vs. b) and d) and when he donks the river do we call with A high? The 3 bet is obviously horrible but I bet the turn all day long w the nut draw 2 overs and gs.
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