25NL - QQ deep and OOP

VLV · #1 09-08-2007, 06:50 AM

Villain is 30/21/3 over 165, not great but unfortunately I haven't seen him showdown any hands so I have no idea what he plays.

I don't really know what spot to ask about so can you just critique the whole hand? I feel uncomfortable playing it from the flop RR.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($46.35)
BB ($26.50)
UTG ($34.60)
MP ($59.40)
Button ($43.60)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP raises to $0.85, 1 fold, Hero raises to $3.1, 1 fold, MP calls $2.15.

Flop: ($6.35) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $4, MP raises to $9, Hero calls $5.

Turn: ($24.35) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $15.75, Hero calls $15.75.

River: ($55.85) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $18.6 (All-In)

mvdgaag · #2 09-08-2007, 07:05 AM

I prefer to call preflop when deep... f*** it, it's only queens. As played I push or fold the turn. In this case I probably push, against more nitty opponents I expect they can beat an overpair to raise the flop and bet out again, so I fold.

Jzo19 · #3 09-08-2007, 07:11 AM

you have to RR more because your deep (4or 4.25 should work) ...or not raise at all ...you gave him great implied odds to call with a ton of hands

mvdgaag · #4 09-08-2007, 07:47 AM

Jzo19: Yes, we could reraise 4.25 (or preferably even bigger) to reduce the implied odds or call for set value instead. Anything in between makes it hard to play IMO.

I prefer to treat QQ as any middle pair here and go for set value, even more with bigger stacks. These stacks are just at the border for me. So I think both is fine, but $3 is definately too little and could get us in a lot of trouble later.

VLV · #5 09-08-2007, 08:05 AM

Thanks guys. I'm really uncomfortable playing deep (even though this isn't that deep) I didn't even think that I would have to raise it more PF with a bigger stack.

mvdgaag · #6 09-08-2007, 08:57 AM

You don't have to... But since you didn't, now you you've learned what makes it so difficult. You are left with too many chips to risk and you are likely only to put them in the pot when you are behind. So while you do have them at risk, you seldom get to use them when you're ahead.

If there we're only two pot sized bets left you would just commit at this flop most of the time. So raising preflop to $5, leaving a pot of $10 and betting $8 your opponent can't really make a decent raise except for a push (since any raise but a minraise would leave you both comitted for all your chips anyways).

I still hate that with queens, since he probably won't push TT- and JJ+ all beats you. I don't think he'll have AJ in his range very often, so if he pushes it's either a bluff with AK or you're beat. But as you see you force him to make a decision for all his chips, not yours...

monkeymaps · #7 09-08-2007, 01:18 PM

push/fold turn IMO
also this guy is 30/20/3 so he could have alot more hands here than TT+ and AK IMO making this harder to get away from for me anyways.
any reads on his post flop play?
AJ is in his range here I think

shoxbb6 · #8 09-08-2007, 04:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I prefer to treat QQ as any middle pair here and go for set value, even more with bigger stacks. These stacks are just at the border for me. So I think both is fine, but $3 is definately too little and could get us in a lot of trouble later.

[/ QUOTE ]
Being deep is a great reason to open up your 3betting range even more. Even donks are capable of noticing that you've only 3bet once or twice in a blue moon and will call with a wide range purely for implied odds. If you're not comfortable reraising QQ deep, leave the table and go to another one where you can buy in for 100 bb's.