LO8 river bluff CR

[donger]

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If you had the 7, a more natural play is to bet for value, having been in the lead for the whole hand. People in that game and the 30-60 will call with v thin highs on the river.

gl

bdd

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I played in this games alot (30-60 and above) and everyone will call with a Q,J or 7. And some of this guys will also with a bare 2 and AT high.

Its just the "got ya donk" mentality.

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Right, but are they betting these hands?

[Buzz]

Hi Big Dave - Villain called after the flop and called after the turn.

I'd guess Villain was drawing after the flop, and probably not for the board to pair. If so, then Villain missed on the turn and was still on a draw.

(...a draw for what? My best guess is probably low.)

Now Hero checks the river. Villain probably correctly puts Hero on a missed low draw. It wasn't clear that Hero didn't flop a set and turn a full house until Hero checked the river! But now suddenly (because Hero checks the river) Villain can put Hero on a missed low draw.

And so Villain bets the river. Call it betting position. Call it betting the void. Whatever.

True, it's possible Villain could have been setting a trap on the turn. However that would be an unusual way to play a strong high hand. (You'd expect Villain to raise on the third betting round with such a hand, hoping to make it expensive for Hero to draw for low.)

Even without the tell, I'd guess Villain was probably using position on the river hoping to out-play Hero. But the tell and Donger's logic fall right in line with that guess:
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He instantly bet when I checked, which is info I should have probably included in the OP. This didn't really make sense; he should need a little time to consider a value bet on this board with any hand that he wasn't capable of raising with on the turn (barring QQ or retardo slowplays).

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At any rate, imagine Villain's chagrin when Hero check-raises!

Nice play, Donger!

Buzz

[Big Dave D]

As I still play that game, I'm getting close to the line as to how much more advice, right or wrong, I feel it is sane to share. What I would add:

1. In that game, it would not be unlikely to see many more hands than a low draw calling to the river. And most of these will be pair or better.
2. People will put you on a nut low by your actions, minus the check raise, and are thereby likely to bet the river.
3. What hands do you make him fold by check raising, that you don't think you make him fold by betting, or don't bluff catch by calling with the nut no pair?

gl

bdd

[donger]

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As I still play that game, I'm getting close to the line as to how much more advice, right or wrong, I feel it is sane to share. What I would add:

1. In that game, it would not be unlikely to see many more hands than a low draw calling to the river. And most of these will be pair or better.
2. People will put you on a nut low by your actions, minus the check raise, and are thereby likely to bet the river.
3. What hands do you make him fold by check raising, that you don't think you make him fold by betting, or don't bluff catch by calling with the nut no pair?

gl

bdd

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Resp:

1) How many of these are strong enough to bet the river for value? When I check here, I'm supposed to have a junky missed low draw, so why bet a medium-to-weak hand for value when I likely am either calling to snap a bluff or have less of a hand myself?

2)Again, if they put me on a bricked low draw, what's the point in betting the river?


3) I think he cks behind most of his bluff-catchers and bets the bottom range of hands that are beating me (and some chops) as a "bluff." These are the hands I'm hoping to fold. Any worse hand, I get an extra bet from letting him bluff.

[Big Dave D]

You're points 1 and 2 lead me to think you haven't played that game much. In the end, as per my original post, I don't think this is a terrible play. Just one that is less effective in that particular game than a B&M or someone used to a different table dynamic might imagine.

gl

bdd

[donger]

I don't play on stars much, but I do play a lot of midstakes O8 on other sites. So are the people really that bad in this game? Like betting a pair of 3s at the river then calling when CR'd? If so, why recommnend bluffing here?