99 SB vs 50bb button opener

[donger]

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I'd crai

edit to say: if you bet/call you're usually in bad shape but you'll see shorties shove pretty much atcs in this spot if you check. and if he bets pot or something close to it, ur not folding and at that point all the moneys goin in so just shove

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This is probably my favorite answer so far, as I think it extracts the most value. So in the actual hand, I bet pot and he smooth called, leaving himself like $48 behind. I just fire again on the turn, given his stack size, right?

[cs3]

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you thought you were ahead of his 3bet calling range right?

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I have seen this idea expressed a few times on this forum, and while I'm not anywhere near good enough at poker to have as much righteous indignation as I do, it's just wrong! The decision about whether 3-betting is profitable should be made by comparing the EV of 3-betting (to which fold equity contributes a significant amount--it is not limited to equity against villain's 3-bet calling range) to the EV of the alternative (calling or folding).

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ya i understand all that, but you missed the point.
IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE given villain is shorstack AND the flop texture, if hero 3bet 9 there, you should be playing for stacks on that flop.

fwiw,
1) we have 0 FE vs hands we want to fold
2) we should never 3 bet a shorstack if we actually believe we are behind his range
3) if we are ahead of his range PF, we are def ahead of his range on this flop
4) calling PF is fine and might be higher EV vs shorty, but thats not how hero played the hand so i gave advice on flop action

[MichaelBolton777]

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you thought you were ahead of his 3bet calling range right?

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I have seen this idea expressed a few times on this forum, and while I'm not anywhere near good enough at poker to have as much righteous indignation as I do, it's just wrong! The decision about whether 3-betting is profitable should be made by comparing the EV of 3-betting (to which fold equity contributes a significant amount--it is not limited to equity against villain's 3-bet calling range) to the EV of the alternative (calling or folding).

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ya i understand all that, but you missed the point.
IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE given villain is shorstack AND the flop texture, if hero 3bet 9 there, you should be playing for stacks on that flop.

fwiw,
1) we have 0 FE vs hands we want to fold
2) we should never 3 bet a shorstack if we actually believe we are behind his range
3) if we are ahead of his range PF, we are def ahead of his range on this flop
4) calling PF is fine and might be higher EV vs shorty, but thats not how hero played the hand so i gave advice on flop action

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dont we believe, though, that we are ahead of his opening range. shouldnt that be what matters? - we are ahead of his opening range, so 3 bet...no?

[SamuraiJon]

Ya, I wrote that wrong Nick and I'm an idiot on so many levels for not previewing that reply[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]. Kinda multi-tasking at work and then didn't reread to see if it made sense.

It's supposed to be 'if you push flop'(assuming he has JJ and is a thinker). And then I skimmed stack sizes and thought villain was BB and not BTN. Therefore implied odds when stacking and yadda yadda yadda. Basically, just disregard my post [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]