The rule and ettiquitte on asking to see mucked cards at showdown?

[mntndrew]

Slightly OT: There is a player in my home game who, at showdown, tries to show down as few cards as possible to determine if he has enough to win (1 in hold 'em games, 2 in Omaha games). It's an official rule that you have to table a full hand if you're staking a claim to the pot, right? Out of line to ask for this?

[Torello]

The other day I asked to see a hand for the first time ever.

It was limit and the turn action was A bet, B raise, I fold, A call. River check check, A mucks and B pushes his cards forward face down with tip. They were two asian guys who had been speaking a couple times between hands in asian. I asked to see a winner, they protested a little bit, and I said it was fair for me to ask to see a real hand. I wouldn't say that I definitely thought they were colluding, I just wanted to make sure that I protect myself from the possibility.

B flashed me one card that paired the board so I let it go. Nothing else suspicious happened.

[PokerHatesMe]

This rule is a "PRIVLAGE" not a "right" indeed anyone that was delt cards in the beginning of a hand has a "right" to ask to see a losing players hand in a called showdown but it is a "privalge" for it to be utilized more than once... if somone at your table is continuing to ask to see the losing hands of players then just call the floor and they will stop it.

[SammyG-SD]

I will ask sometimes, but it has to meet the situation of a maniac/shady guy who has been angle shooting; and I ask when its allin before the flop/turn is dealt. Usually the dealer just ask to both set of cards, but if the person really wants to muck, then let him. I don't think you should ever ask after the person has mucked, unless you really expect cheating.

[StarkNaked]

[ QUOTE ]
Slightly OT: There is a player in my home game who, at showdown, tries to show down as few cards as possible to determine if he has enough to win (1 in hold 'em games, 2 in Omaha games). It's an official rule that you have to table a full hand if you're staking a claim to the pot, right? Out of line to ask for this?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not out of line imo. I do it all the time. Although most ppl I play with also play in B&Ms so they are familiar that that's the way it has to be.

[chillrob]

[ QUOTE ]
The other day I asked to see a hand for the first time ever.

It was limit and the turn action was A bet, B raise, I fold, A call. River check check, A mucks and B pushes his cards forward face down with tip. They were two asian guys who had been speaking a couple times between hands in asian. I asked to see a winner, they protested a little bit, and I said it was fair for me to ask to see a real hand. I wouldn't say that I definitely thought they were colluding, I just wanted to make sure that I protect myself from the possibility.

B flashed me one card that paired the board so I let it go. Nothing else suspicious happened.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually it was generous of him to show you, since this wasn't even an IWTSTH situation. The rule only allows players to request to see a hand when there has been a showdown, which didn't happen here.

However, it sounds like you certainly had reason to suspect collusion. This shows why the IWTSTH is so ridiculously stupid - it doesn't stop collusion at all. How often would there be a showdown if there is collusion going on? More likely two players would squeeze a third player out, then one folds, just like what happened in your game.

[NajdorfDefense]

Anyone is allowed to ask if they suspect collusion. Otherwise, dont' do it. Running off the fish, however, is -ev.

[Diana Ross Fan]

[ QUOTE ]
This rule is a "PRIVLAGE" not a "right" indeed anyone that was delt cards in the beginning of a hand has a "right" to ask to see a losing players hand in a called showdown but it is a "privalge" for it to be utilized more than once... if somone at your table is continuing to ask to see the losing hands of players then just call the floor and they will stop it.

[/ QUOTE ]

and you know this because??

you are all almost all wrong here. The etiquette is to not ask to often. Outside of the cult of 2+2, it is not bad ettiquette to ask that and hand in a showdown be shown down.

[kblitz9]

Does anyone know how the floorpeople handle this situation at Borgata. It really pisses me off when it goes check, check on river and i say..."you got it, i missed." Then some other jerk says, "i want to see his cards."
After the dealer turns it over, i explain to him that that is bad etiquette. And they always say, it's my right to know and see your cards. Soo, will calling the floor over at Borg help my cause. To me, it's amateur BS and poor etiquette.

[jjshabado]

[ QUOTE ]
Does anyone know how the floorpeople handle this situation at Borgata. It really pisses me off when it goes check, check on river and i say..."you got it, i missed." Then some other jerk says, "i want to see his cards."
After the dealer turns it over, i explain to him that that is bad etiquette. And they always say, it's my right to know and see your cards. Soo, will calling the floor over at Borg help my cause. To me, it's amateur BS and poor etiquette.

[/ QUOTE ]

It'll help if someone is frequently asking, but not if its just once or twice.