200/400 stud/8 hand that plays like stud high

[HOWMANY]

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Wouldn't the solid guy raise with split Kings? Wouldn't he call with (A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]? I don't see why he "has" to have Kings here. Maybe when he bets K9o on fourth you give him credit for Kings, but not for calling on third.



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He doesn't know what we have, he thinks we've got a low. Him 2betting 3rd doesn't seem to do anything useful. The girl should fold 3rd no matter what, and the BI is probably calling 2 bets just as easily as 1 if he's got a good hand and he's a reasonable player, and with just KK I'd think he'd prefer getting to 4th cheaply as he will then be able to play his hand easier. Depending on how the K perceives DD he may want to keep the pot small so that DD will make an incorrect peel on 4th if he sees him as some fishy young Holdem kid. If they've played together before and he knows DD is good at these games then I think he should still call because he will know DD has a fairly solid hand here and he should see no reason to build a large pot early on.

[DeathDonkey]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Wouldn't the solid guy raise with split Kings? Wouldn't he call with (A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]? I don't see why he "has" to have Kings here. Maybe when he bets K9o on fourth you give him credit for Kings, but not for calling on third.



[/ QUOTE ]

He doesn't know what we have, he thinks we've got a low. Him 2betting 3rd doesn't seem to do anything useful. The girl should fold 3rd no matter what, and the BI is probably calling 2 bets just as easily as 1 if he's got a good hand and he's a reasonable player, and with just KK I'd think he'd prefer getting to 4th cheaply as he will then be able to play his hand easier. Depending on how the K perceives DD he may want to keep the pot small so that DD will make an incorrect peel on 4th if he sees him as some fishy young Holdem kid. If they've played together before and he knows DD is good at these games then I think he should still call because he will know DD has a fairly solid hand here and he should see no reason to build a large pot early on.

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Nice post, I'll add that his read on me is "only other player at the table who doesn't suck" and we had a lot of respect for each other.

-DeathDonkey

[*TT*]

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I am almost positive that calling 5th is the worst play.

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I agree.

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related notes - If hero calls, (xx)K9 is unlikely to jam if he is a good player. If hero jams (xx)K9 folds at least 50% of the time. Hero is likely to act first on the following two rounds.

and once again I really don't know how to play this street if DD doesn't lead. All the options seem equally bad. Even if folding is best after all in the heat of battle I'd be so confused I doubt I could fold.

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Wouldn't the solid guy raise with split Kings? Wouldn't he call with (A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]? I don't see why he "has" to have Kings here. Maybe when he bets K9o on fourth you give him credit for Kings, but not for calling on third.



[/ QUOTE ]

He doesn't know what we have, he thinks we've got a low. Him 2betting 3rd doesn't seem to do anything useful. The girl should fold 3rd no matter what, and the BI is probably calling 2 bets just as easily as 1 if he's got a good hand and he's a reasonable player, and with just KK I'd think he'd prefer getting to 4th cheaply as he will then be able to play his hand easier. Depending on how the K perceives DD he may want to keep the pot small so that DD will make an incorrect peel on 4th if he sees him as some fishy young Holdem kid. If they've played together before and he knows DD is good at these games then I think he should still call because he will know DD has a fairly solid hand here and he should see no reason to build a large pot early on.

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great analysis. Question is do we really want to get HU with P2? P2's range is hard to determine.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[Micturition Man]

Valid points but if the BI is a solid player, the K reraising on 3rd should significantly increase the chances the BI will fold.

For just the completion BI should probably call with any non-razz hand and probably small pairs with low kickers as well (that's probably arguable).

For 2 bets IMO he should be throwing away most 2-gappers and definitely any pair that doesn't beat KK.

Plus as DD said the girl with the J was too loose, but not crazy loose, so she probably calls high hands for one that she folds for two.

[HOWMANY]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Wouldn't the solid guy raise with split Kings? Wouldn't he call with (A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]? I don't see why he "has" to have Kings here. Maybe when he bets K9o on fourth you give him credit for Kings, but not for calling on third.



[/ QUOTE ]

He doesn't know what we have, he thinks we've got a low. Him 2betting 3rd doesn't seem to do anything useful. The girl should fold 3rd no matter what, and the BI is probably calling 2 bets just as easily as 1 if he's got a good hand and he's a reasonable player, and with just KK I'd think he'd prefer getting to 4th cheaply as he will then be able to play his hand easier. Depending on how the K perceives DD he may want to keep the pot small so that DD will make an incorrect peel on 4th if he sees him as some fishy young Holdem kid. If they've played together before and he knows DD is good at these games then I think he should still call because he will know DD has a fairly solid hand here and he should see no reason to build a large pot early on.

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great analysis. Question is do we really want to get HU with P2? P2's range is hard to determine.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

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I've been thinking about this hand and I'm beginning to think you're right. This might be one of those rare times where I want to fold what has a pretty good chance of being the best hand. P2 has accidentally stumbled into a situation where her hand is extremely difficult to read and could result in a catastrophic fold on 6th or a spew by us on 6th/7th when we might already have only 4 outs. When I first read the hand I thought "we've probably got the best hand, we raise" but I think I'm coming around and realizing that it may be better to relinquish the pot while it's only decent sized instead of making it huge and almost forcing us to show down. I'm not completely sold that we should fold yet but I'm leaning that way.

[southerndog]

EZ fold. If all u can think of is a bunch of best case scenarios of where you're ahead, its time to fold.

[SweetLuckyMe]

I check/fold 4th street.

Heads up with the KK, it would be a peel on 4th and once I hit the queens up on 5th I try get to showdown cheaply. BUT, against 2 other hands it's a clear 4th street check-fold in my opinion. You're behind the KK and there's no way the Ace didn't help the fish's hand.

[Micturition Man]

Are you talking about 5th street?

To me the situation seems like the opposite of what you said. You'd have to think up some worst case scenarios to be behind on 5th.

[Phat Mack]

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my Q's, 5's and T's are super live

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I'm probably getting too cautious in my dotage, but when I try to put P2 on a hand (OK, OK, maybe a fruitless endeavor), I come up with hands that have face cards or wheel cards in them. Also, I'm not sure that P1 mightn't have a Q, and I'm not sure that hitting a T improves your hand that much.

It is usually nice to have a high hand with a wheel card in the door, but I'm not sure that it helps you that much here. P2 sounds like a player who would wait for the large betting round to raise with a big hand, so maybe she has something, but I assume you would want P1 out so that you could play against P2. The trouble is, with your board, I don't see a way to get him out. I fold 5th.