PS 5/10. Small PP's UI that Hero Plays Badly

[KilgoreTrout]

Posted this in SSHE by mistake. Reposting here.

Just checking on these. They occurred within a couple of minutes on different tables, and I think I made a pig's breakfast out of them both. Please berate me liberally.

No reads on villains. This was early in the session.

Hand 1:

Hero is HJ with 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Folds to Hero, hero raises, 2 folds, SB calls, BB (Villain) calls.

Flop: K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, SB folds, BB raises, Hero pukes and calls.

Turn: A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
BB bets, Hero folds.

______________________

Hand 2. Different table, same bad play by me.

Hero is UTG with 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Hero raises, 2 folds, BTN (Villain) 3-bets, blinds fold, Hero calls.

Flop: J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Hero checks, Villain bets, Hero raises because he sucks, Villain calls.

Turn: K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Hero bets because he plays bad, Villain raises, Hero folds.

[RunDownHouse]

Hand one is just fine, you can't go chasing your gutter/set outs getting something like 6:1.

Hand two is a bit ugly. If you had some sort of read you maybe could justify this, but against an unknown I usually c/f the flop. The problem is that that particular flop hit every 3betting hand in the universe in some way. Even if you're best, you're going to have to put your money in OOP and STILL dodge a ton of cards.

[jakbse]

1/ I play the same, but I think preflop is marginal, ok on a tight table, on a loose table I think you can just limp for set value.
2/ Considering the flop I think villian has a draw (AK, AQ, AJ, KQ) or you're behind to a better pp. Just c/c flop and c/f turn as the board now hits just about anything he would 3-bet.

[Oink]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand one is just fine

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I dont see the point in calling the flop raise and then folding a turn that improves you...

[mvoss]

Hand 1 looks good to me.

Hand 2 I just fold the flop. The flop hit so many of his 3-betting hands in some way that I don't think continuing here is profitable.

[milesdyson]

I'd call the turn in hand 1. If he has a 4 or 2 he's checking the river. There is a chance he has nothing too (K42r flops are auto checkraises for some). If he has a K or two pair you have 6 outs getting 6:1.

Fold flop in hand 2.

[jstill]

hand 1 im not sure if its right but calling the flop with 6 turn cards u can continue profitably after (2 5s 4 3s) is enough for me getting 9:1

Against an unknown its close for me w/ only 6 likely outs only getting 6:1 (that A actually improves some of his worse hands on the flop he might check-raise). But there is a good chance u could have the best hand but without knowing his tendencies its tough to say if he ll check the river with those, so i think my default vs an unknown is fold. Against many I'd call on the turn here however.

If u have the read on BB as either a folder, weak-tight or very reasonable, raising the turn mite not be horrible. u got 6 outs and could take the free showdown and possibly fold out a better hand. The only problem with the "bluff" raise is if we raise and he 3bets, now we have to see the river having bloated the pot so much with likely 6 clean outs getting like 10:1.

hand 2 i give up without any thought of other possibilities.

[rigoletto]

Hand 1: raise the flop!

[joker122]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1: raise the flop!

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you mean 3bet? that's terrible imo.

[rigoletto]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1: raise the flop!

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you mean 3bet? that's terrible imo.

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More terrible than calling and then calling the turn?