AC closing in on Vegas?

[Assani Fisher]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
LV is more than gambling.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know most people probably agree with you, but as far as I'm concerned all Vegas has is gambling. AC has the beach and boardwalk, both of which are suprisingly nice (the beach is a lot nicer than it was 15 years ago when I went for the first time).

I went to Vegas for the first time last year and was bored when not playing poker, and the poker was not as good as in AC (and nowhere near as good as in California). Some of the stuff at the big casinos was interesting to look at _once_, but I have no desire to ever see it again.

Honestly I have no idea what the allure of Vegas is. If you live on the East Coast, like poker and the beach, go to AC. If you really just want great poker (and want other interesting things to do as well), go to Los Angeles or the Bay Area of California. If you're a degenerate gambler who doesn't mind never being outside, go to Vegas.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm curious as to how old you are and if you're married.

I'm a 24 year old single guy and AC doesn't come close to Vegas for me. Vegas has great nightlife and tons of hot girls. AC can't compete.

[chillrob]

Yeah, I figured that was the reason some people liked Vegas. I am 38 and went there with my girlfriend, so wasn't looking to pick up women. However, I never go to bars anyway except to hear a band I like, and never been successful picking up women anyway even when I was younger, so I wouldn't go somewhere for that. I would imagine there are plenty of places to meet ladies in any major city though, so I really don't get going to Vegas for that.

In response to Cactus Jack, of course I know that Las Vegas is a big city, so has lots more big city things than AC does, but I'm sure it has nothing much that LA or SF doesn't have, and those places also have poker. I also understand that lots of people go places for different reasons than I do, but I was guessing I was typical of most 2+2 posters, who mostly care about playing poker. And if you want to play poker, there are at least several places in the country better than Vegas.

[vhawk01]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I figured that was the reason some people liked Vegas. I am 38 and went there with my girlfriend, so wasn't looking to pick up women. However, I never go to bars anyway except to hear a band I like, and never been successful picking up women anyway even when I was younger, so I wouldn't go somewhere for that. I would imagine there are plenty of places to meet ladies in any major city though, so I really don't get going to Vegas for that.

In response to Cactus Jack, of course I know that Las Vegas is a big city, so has lots more big city things than AC does, but I'm sure it has nothing much that LA or SF doesn't have, and those places also have poker. I also understand that lots of people go places for different reasons than I do, but I was guessing I was typical of most 2+2 posters, who mostly care about playing poker. And if you want to play poker, there are at least several places in the country better than Vegas.

[/ QUOTE ]

The idea is that Vegas has better poker than places that have better nightlife, and it has better nightlife than places that have better poker. And it has better attractions than most other places. And better food than most, as well.

If you pick and choose, you might find that Vegas isn't the absolute BEST at anything, be it shows or girls or bars or poker. But there just isn't ANYWHERE you can get all of these things, at that quality, in the same place. Not even close.

[chillrob]

I really am not much of a nightlife person myself, but I can't imagine that Los Angeles doesn't have at least as good nightlife as Las Vegas. For the limited nightlife I enjoy (going to hear good local and touring bands play) Los Angeles certainly has it way over Las Vegas. About the only thing worse I could see would be that you would have to drive awhile to get from the poker to the nightlife in LA.

[StevieG]

[ QUOTE ]
I really am not much of a nightlife person myself, but I can't imagine that Los Angeles doesn't have at least as good nightlife as Las Vegas. For the limited nightlife I enjoy (going to hear good local and touring bands play) Los Angeles certainly has it way over Las Vegas. About the only thing worse I could see would be that you would have to drive awhile to get from the poker to the nightlife in LA.

[/ QUOTE ]

But that is the point. LV is a destination precisely because those things are all in one spot - even in the same hotel. You could have a great trip without ever leaving the Wynn, say.

Of course L.A. has all that stuff - and yet every weekend thousands of Angelenos make the trip out to LV.

That evolution took a while. The addition of high quality restaurants to the normal buffets and the change in shows from headliners and burlesque to some really great options happened over the last 15 years. But LV had a huge head start over AC precisely because it is farther from LA than AC is from Philly and NYC.

AC day trips are easy and pretty much the norm. LV is a definite overnight and weekend destination. So the hotels had to offer something - even if it were the simple cheap shrimp cocktails and topless shows to start.

What does AC offer? Coin-in rebates on bus trips.

As PA and other states near AC add gambling, AC will have to add more to draw the players. The Borgata and the Quarter at the Trop are a start (in fact the compliment the Borgata gets all the time is that it feels like a Vegas property). But the city as a whole is way behind Las Vegas.

[vhawk01]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I really am not much of a nightlife person myself, but I can't imagine that Los Angeles doesn't have at least as good nightlife as Las Vegas. For the limited nightlife I enjoy (going to hear good local and touring bands play) Los Angeles certainly has it way over Las Vegas. About the only thing worse I could see would be that you would have to drive awhile to get from the poker to the nightlife in LA.

[/ QUOTE ]

But that is the point. LV is a destination precisely because those things are all in one spot - even in the same hotel. You could have a great trip without ever leaving the Wynn, say.

Of course L.A. has all that stuff - and yet every weekend thousands of Angelenos make the trip out to LV.

That evolution took a while. The addition of high quality restaurants to the normal buffets and the change in shows from headliners and burlesque to some really great options happened over the last 15 years. But LV had a huge head start over AC precisely because it is farther from LA than AC is from Philly and NYC.

AC day trips are easy and pretty much the norm. LV is a definite overnight and weekend destination. So the hotels had to offer something - even if it were the simple cheap shrimp cocktails and topless shows to start.

What does AC offer? Coin-in rebates on bus trips.

As PA and other states near AC add gambling, AC will have to add more to draw the players. The Borgata and the Quarter at the Trop are a start (in fact the compliment the Borgata gets all the time is that it feels like a Vegas property). But the city as a whole is way behind Las Vegas.

[/ QUOTE ]


Happy to report, they are just straight-up rebates now. They just hand you a twenty dollar bill and a $5 buffet coupon, its glorious for a poker player who has no intention of playing any slot machine. $12 roundtrip to AC.

[NickMPK]

I assume that one of the big reasons AC is still a "day trip" rather than a "weekend" destination is that you can't a hotel room in an AC casino on a weekend for less than $300/night.

I've never been to Vegas, but my impression was that you could get weekend rooms on the strip at a nice casino for $100-200, and that it is much easier to get comped rooms with a moderate amount of play than it is in AC.

I know the new AC developments are targeted at a higher-class of clientelle than bus trip vouchers are, but $500 hotel rooms are unaffordable even to most successful professionals. If AC ever wants to be able to promote their casinos as "weekend destinations" for more than a tiny fraction of the population, they need a lot more reasonably priced overnight accommodations. Maybe this will happen with all the new hotel capacity being built, but when I hear about all the "luxury suites" at the Water Club, etc., I am skeptical.

[Poshua]

[ QUOTE ]
If AC ever wants to be able to promote their casinos as "weekend destinations" for more than a tiny fraction of the population, they need a lot more reasonably priced overnight accommodations. Maybe this will happen with all the new hotel capacity being built, but when I hear about all the "luxury suites" at the Water Club, etc., I am skeptical.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think what's going to happen in AC is that, once all the new luxury capacity opens up, properties that have been around 20 years or more and are varying degrees of tired (e.g. the Trump hotels) will no longer be able to charge $300/weekend night for rooms. So, the Water Club won't be cheap, but something else might.

[Cactus Jack]

Rob, I didn't mean any offense.

The thread was suggesting that AC is about to be as successful as Vegas. I hopefully have shown that it's not, and not likely to.

Vegas has 151,000 hotel rooms. More than any other city in the world.

The CES draws 140,000 people. No other city in the world can do it.

The World Market has the furniture show next week. Again, the show has outgrown it's original birthplace in N.C. Vegas will absorb it and most won't even know it's here.

I've been here 15 months, and it has amazed me. I've never been in a place like this. I'll never be in any other place, again. That's subjective, I admit. But by any objective measure, AC has a very long way to go before it even sees Vegas' lights.

Sorry, EastCoast guys, but Viva Las Vegas! lol

[Gonso]

Well, I was born, raised, and work two jobs in AC. The city is far from perfect, but it is tremendously better now than it was back when the casinos first opened. Especially the development that's happened in the last decade or so.

AC itself isn't a particularly large area of land, so when you open an outlet shopping district, or tear down the Inlet (remember those F'd up public housing projects there? Stabtastic), it makes a major difference.

Besides, there is a lot of interest in further development. Many casinos are aged and Borgata has demonstrated a definite demand for high-quality gaming. There are only like 11 casinos now. There are expansions and upgrades in progress or planned for most of the existing houses ($1.5B for Hilton!), and there are new casinos coming.

Being neck and neck with Vegas may be out of the question any time in the forseeable future, but there's still serious investment interest here.

When I was a kid the best concert was like Tom Jones or something. Now, everyone plays here. Borgata's insane compared to what was the old AC standard for casinos. There is also an exodus of residents who can't afford to liver here with rising proprty values.