AQos in CO - What's my best turn play?

Daniel Magix · #1 10-26-2007, 03:32 PM

PokerStars 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (8 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP2 raises, Hero 3-bets, Button calls, 2 folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (16.40 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, Button calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (10.70 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, Hero ???

Thoughts:
I imagine my large field of villians here, have a mix of hands ranging from big cards, a flush draw, and maybe a small pocket pair in there somewhere.

After being checked to on the Turn, my instinct was to bet - but after a talk with Boz this morning about this hand, he felt a bet was spewy here. We didn't really get too much into other options, because I got sidetracked with work. So what other options are there?

C/F: seems bad because the pot will be very big when it gets to me, and I figure I have about 7 outs to a win and 3 to a chop. If Button bets after I check, I can see any or all of the other 3 villians coming along. C/C sound right here, in particular if other villians call the Button bet??

Fantam · #2 10-26-2007, 04:05 PM

Check call looks about right to me.

Your analysis seems reasonable.

Ulkis · #3 10-26-2007, 04:36 PM

PF: Folding would've kept you out of trouble. If MP2 would've called, then a raise. What do you reckon Button has, calling 3? AJ if you're lucky.

Flop as played: c/f. To win this you would have to hit perfect-perfect on the turn and river and you're dodging outs for any pocket pair as it is.

LateFlag · #4 10-26-2007, 04:54 PM

Pretty easy c/c on the turn. You have seven outs, although an A or 6 figures to just give you a chop. You have enough overlay to peel.

kerowo · #5 10-26-2007, 04:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
PF: Folding would've kept you out of trouble. If MP2 would've called, then a raise. What do you reckon Button has, calling 3? AJ if you're lucky.

[/ QUOTE ]

Way, way too tight for .05/.10. Pre-flop is fine, button could have anything at this level. At higher levels it is totally dependent on your read on MP2.

[ QUOTE ]

Flop as played: c/f. To win this you would have to hit perfect-perfect on the turn and river and you're dodging outs for any pocket pair as it is.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow. There is still a very good chance you have the best hand here. Giving up on the flop is Superbad, and not the mildly amusing poorly paced movie kind of Superbad. With these kinds of boards I'm leaning more towards betting until someone tells me I'm in trouble than I am towards c/f.

From this hand you sound a little weak/tight. You should work on that.

Daniel Magix · #6 10-26-2007, 05:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
PF: Folding would've kept you out of trouble.

[/ QUOTE ]

Eh, I did consider that for a second or two - but then I felt that folding AQos from CO with a few limpers prior to the raise, was too weak to make a habit of. I 3bet to try to blow the blinds out and maybe one or both of the EP limpers, and get it 2 or 3 handed after the flop.

Ulkis · #7 10-26-2007, 05:14 PM

kerowo, 5 players have put in 3 bets PF, and there is a "very good" chance A high is best, on this board? I am working on my laptop and don't have Pokerstove handy but this looks like a good example to check out some ranges and equities. I'm away all next week so will have to free-ride this one. Perhaps hero's equity is good but intuitively it does not look like it (to me).

And I'm working on my weak-tightness but NL FR is not helping...

bozlax · #8 10-26-2007, 06:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
kerowo, 5 players have put in 3 bets PF, and there is a "very good" chance A high is best, on this board?

[/ QUOTE ]

Ulk, not exactly: two players put in one bet each pf, and then put in two more. One player put in two, and then one more. Only one player put in 3 bets.

Folding this anywhere so far is badly weak-tight. Cold-calling pf wouldn't be terrible, but treying might buy you the button so it's probably a better solution. Having pf3'd, not c-betting this flop is out of the question.

calidris · #9 10-27-2007, 05:39 AM

I have the utmost respect for boz and totally agree with 3betting PF is goot. But I don't understand c-betting the flop into 4 opponents with two overs and a BDFD. What is the reason other than "too weak tight"?

bozlax · #10 10-27-2007, 10:38 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I have the utmost respect for boz and totally agree with 3betting PF is goot. But I don't understand c-betting the flop into 4 opponents with two overs and a BDFD. What is the reason other than "too weak tight"?

[/ QUOTE ]

Do everything you can do to win a big pot. Players can't fold if you don't bet, so if there's even a 5% chance in this pot that you fold a 6-outer, you do it. And, as I said, if that player happens to be holding the button, you've just significantly improved your position in the hand.