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  #261  
Old 11-25-2007, 01:55 PM
ActionFreak ActionFreak is offline
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Default Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran

i don't think anyone with a sense of humor would give an answer any different than patrik did given recent discussion

also
great short handed capped buy-in internet player does not neccesarily equal great full ring uncapped buy-in live player and vice versa. it is hillarious that you guys get so upset over this
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  #262  
Old 11-25-2007, 03:17 PM
Daliman Daliman is offline
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Default Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran

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As long as the online player is smart and able to control their body, a few reverse tells should nearly make up for whatever they lose in that department.

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You think Gabe Thaler, Kenny Tran, or PA, isn't going to pick up on mf'in "reverse tells"? If so, keep playing online, which I'm sure you will.


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I've owned so many "top" live pros before with reverse tells it's really not that hard to do and not ridiculous to think that it would work on even the top pros. All live players put so much stock in their ability to read people and just assume some internet player can't reverse tell. I've tricked many a live player that was considered a nasty people-reader with some of the most simple reverse tells. They say something like "you look a bit nervous there" when you have the nuts and you subtly swallow/gulp. Make your hands shake while you're bluffing. There's tons of tricks and they work. I dont' know about PA or Kenny in particular but it's worked on tons of other "great live players" so I have no reason to doubt it would work on them also (or at least confuse them enough that they can't rely on your "tells" when you're playing against them)

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Yeah, especially if they know you are an inferior "internet player." I've used the shaking hands more than one time to steal pots, and I find staring them down like you are trying to burn a hole in the back of their skull effective too when they are thinking about calling the river(when you have the nuts, obv).

Reverse tells FTW.
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  #263  
Old 11-25-2007, 03:34 PM
Taylor Caby Taylor Caby is offline
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Default Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran

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the problem with this question/thread is that it is in anyone's best interest who has a "spot" on this list to say what the people who create this game would want to hear.

if you were patrik antonius or brandon adams, and you had access to a very juicy game, and telling the rest of the world just how juicy it was and how bad people play might put at risk your invitation to the game and/or cause better players to show up to the game, what would you say??

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wouldnt they just say no comment then or not post...i dont see how giving a false statement or making a false post would have any more benefit then staying quiet

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let's say for example, there was a very rich player who liked to play a certain game. let's say that, even though he has lost millions of dollars in the game and the game pretty much only runs that high when he is in town, everyone that plays him calls him "fearless" and "one of the best in the world," and that he is hands down the toughest player to play.

can you see how this would be better than simply saying nothing at all, and how this would prolong his stay at the game, even though he is losing millions of dollars in it?

poker is very much an ego game. the guys that lose a lot of money want to have fun and compete, but they didn't get to where they are in life by being "losers." they truly want to believe they are good and can win, and when they admit to themselves that they have no chance, they will move on to something else.

tc

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Yes, and imagine how many top HS pros would be mad if another HS pro blogged about how bad this huge fish played. Boy I'd hate to be the owner of THAT site......

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Traffic=dollars. Ask David about that.

Furthermore, I wouldn't post details about certain players, I would just talk about the game in general and some hands I played. Same principle applies to me that I think is at work with all of the other players playing in this game.

tc
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  #264  
Old 11-25-2007, 05:27 PM
wins_pot wins_pot is offline
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Default Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran

"I've owned so many "top" live pros before with reverse tells it's really not that hard to do and not ridiculous to think that it would work on even the top pros. All live players put so much stock in their ability to read people and just assume some internet player can't reverse tell. I've tricked many a live player that was considered a nasty people-reader with some of the most simple reverse tells. They say something like "you look a bit nervous there" when you have the nuts and you subtly swallow/gulp. Make your hands shake while you're bluffing. There's tons of tricks and they work. I dont' know about PA or Kenny in particular but it's worked on tons of other "great live players" so I have no reason to doubt it would work on them also (or at least confuse them enough that they can't rely on your "tells" when you're playing against them)"

Ariel, I partially agree with you but for the most part live players are able to make an good assessment about the credibility of particular tells. High reliability tells relate to the adrenal response and are difficult or impossible to fake. One cannot pretend to have low adrenal levels in the body when they actually have high levels, and vice versa. Voice constriction, pupil dilation, high pulse rate, finger shaking, jaw/neck tightening, etc, are evidence of high adrenal levels (and usually a strong hand) and these things are very very difficult to fake. As a side note, some people just have a naturally muted adrenal response --- these people will find the transition to live play easier. People who have lively nerves will find the transition tough.
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  #265  
Old 11-25-2007, 05:46 PM
FoxwoodsFiend FoxwoodsFiend is offline
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Default Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran

[ QUOTE ]
"I've owned so many "top" live pros before with reverse tells it's really not that hard to do and not ridiculous to think that it would work on even the top pros. All live players put so much stock in their ability to read people and just assume some internet player can't reverse tell. I've tricked many a live player that was considered a nasty people-reader with some of the most simple reverse tells. They say something like "you look a bit nervous there" when you have the nuts and you subtly swallow/gulp. Make your hands shake while you're bluffing. There's tons of tricks and they work. I dont' know about PA or Kenny in particular but it's worked on tons of other "great live players" so I have no reason to doubt it would work on them also (or at least confuse them enough that they can't rely on your "tells" when you're playing against them)"

Ariel, I partially agree with you but for the most part live players are able to make an good assessment about the credibility of particular tells. High reliability tells relate to the adrenal response and are difficult or impossible to fake. One cannot pretend to have low adrenal levels in the body when they actually have high levels, and vice versa. Voice constriction, pupil dilation, high pulse rate, finger shaking, jaw/neck tightening, etc, are evidence of high adrenal levels (and usually a strong hand) and these things are very very difficult to fake. As a side note, some people just have a naturally muted adrenal response --- these people will find the transition to live play easier. People who have lively nerves will find the transition tough.

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Yeah, I'm not trying to argue tells are entirely irrelevant i just wanted to note that people way overrate how much information live players can reliably get from tells and that live players aren't some gods that can just figure out what you have by looking at you: they're very fallible and their live edge isn't so supernatural that it overrides the lack of fundamentals you see in a lot of live players.
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  #266  
Old 11-25-2007, 05:55 PM
KamiKatze KamiKatze is offline
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Default Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran

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Yeah, I'm trying to argue tells are entirely irrelevant i just didn't want to note that people way overrate how much information live players can reliably get from tells and add that live players are gods that can just figure out what you have by looking at you: they're never fallible and their live edge is so supernatural that it overrides the lack of fundamentals you see in a lot of internet players.

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fyp
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  #267  
Old 11-25-2007, 06:03 PM
FoxwoodsFiend FoxwoodsFiend is offline
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Default Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran

[ QUOTE ]
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Yeah, I'm trying to argue tells are entirely irrelevant i just didn't want to note that people way overrate how much information live players can reliably get from tells and add that live players are gods that can just figure out what you have by looking at you: they're never fallible and their live edge is so supernatural that it overrides the lack of fundamentals you see in a lot of internet players.

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fyp

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first off, you messed up by not changing irrelevant to relevant. second off, this might be the most asinine FYP I've seen in a long time.
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  #268  
Old 11-25-2007, 06:13 PM
jman220 jman220 is offline
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Default Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran

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Yeah, I'm trying to argue tells are entirely irrelevant i just didn't want to note that people way overrate how much information live players can reliably get from tells and add that live players are gods that can just figure out what you have by looking at you: they're never fallible and their live edge is so supernatural that it overrides the lack of fundamentals you see in a lot of internet players.

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fyp

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  #269  
Old 11-25-2007, 06:49 PM
john voight john voight is offline
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Default Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran

maybe, online players grind b/c they dont have any money. and live HSNL players dont play anymore b/c they are set for life.

hell there is only 1 player i see every night sitting on FT and thats Urindanger, no one will even play him. and i have seen him on TV, so i would say he is more of a live player. u guys think phil hellmuth got to where he was by playing the easy guys? no. He played w/ the best and beat them. we see him own MTTs as well in WSOP time and time again.

We saw chris ferguson play n HSP last season. never played a cash game hand in his life, but w/ reads, and good fundamental knowledge, he owned thet abel in the few hands he played (something aba didnt do).

imo there is a simple fact here: the best players are all live b/c they play with the best. and now they dont need to play anymore, b/c they have won so much money.

gg

i'd take hellmuth and fergueson over any two online "poker players" any day.
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  #270  
Old 11-25-2007, 06:51 PM
PLO8FaceKilla PLO8FaceKilla is offline
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Default Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran

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maybe, online players grind b/c they dont have any money. and live HSNL players dont play anymore b/c they are set for life.

hell there is only 1 player i see every night sitting on FT and thats Urindanger, no one will even play him. and i have seen him on TV, so i would say he is more of a live player. u guys think phil hellmuth got to where he was by playing the easy guys? no. He played w/ the best and beat them. we see him own MTTs as well in WSOP time and time again.

We saw chris ferguson play n HSP last season. never played a cash game hand in his life, but w/ reads, and good fundamental knowledge, he owned thet abel in the few hands he played (something aba didnt do).

imo there is a simple fact here: the best players are all live b/c they play with the best. and now they dont need to play anymore, b/c they have won so much money.

gg

i'd take hellmuth and fergueson over any two online "poker players" any day.

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excellent point.

Now back to mediocre online players saying "PA must have been joking".
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