Borgata $5K: 88 in SB facing steam raise

Todd Terry · #1 11-14-2007, 05:22 PM

Hand immediately prior to this one: Villain (solid player, wanted to leave the tourney to play 50/100 NLH earlier, game never got going, it's scheduled to start at 8 p.m., I think it's now about 6:45 p.m.) raises from EP, called by Tom Schneider in the SB. Flop: 6 6 2 r, check, 2/3 pot bet, call. Turn: 5, check, 2/3 pot bet, call. River: 3, no flush on board, Tom bets out 2/3 pot or so, Villain says, "How much is that bluff?", calls, Tom turns over 54o for a rivered gutshot. Villain seems incredibly pissed and mucks, I'm guessing had AA or KK.

Very next hand: 200/400/25, Villain down to 24K, I have about 70K in the SB. Villain opens in EP for 10K, splashing two 5K chips in the pot. Folded around to me in the SB, I look down at 88, and ask how much Villain has left behind. Villain counts out 14K or so behind, and says, "Just put me all in, I want to get out of here." BB is a rock, has around 60K. Your action?

Cornell Fiji · #2 11-14-2007, 05:48 PM

This really looks like QQ+ representing a tilt to me.

I fold without hesitation.

Of course I was not there... and this hand is entirely live read dependant

ShannonShorr · #3 11-14-2007, 05:50 PM

Fold. It's unlikely you have an underpair, but it's extremely likely that he has two overs. It's just unholy to get 60x BB in as a coinflip at this stage of the tournament IMO. Plus, if he's anxious to get to the cash game he's liable to just give them away in 45 minutes.

SS

FiftyOuts · #4 11-14-2007, 07:49 PM

Is the villian a male caucasion in his late 30's with short hair, some people call him Doc? If so, he was genuinely trying to bust out and play the cash game.

Todd Terry · #5 11-14-2007, 08:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Is the villian a male caucasion in his late 30's with short hair, some people call him Doc? If so, he was genuinely trying to bust out and play the cash game.

[/ QUOTE ]

No clue about the "Doc" part, the rest fits. He looked like an FBI agent.

FiftyOuts · #6 11-15-2007, 01:05 AM

Push all in then. Results?

Todd Terry · #7 11-15-2007, 10:48 AM

Given his previous desire to leave the table to play cash and his demeanor at the time, I thought he was actually steaming and his range was ATC, which makes me about 70/30. I also figured he'd be doing it on the next hand, so this was my spot to get those chips. I made it 24K to go, BB folded, he called and turned over T9o. My hand held.

PBFan · #8 11-15-2007, 11:18 AM

why fold when you've got a edge IMO he was trying to bustout can't be turning down those edges no matter how small/big.

Cornell Fiji · #9 11-15-2007, 01:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Given his previous desire to leave the table to play cash and his demeanor at the time, I thought he was actually steaming and his range was ATC, which makes me about 70/30. I also figured he'd be doing it on the next hand, so this was my spot to get those chips. I made it 24K to go, BB folded, he called and turned over T9o. My hand held.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't get it... why is this even a question if you are sure of your read that you are 70/30.

Do you think that you are really good enough to pass up 70/30 edges in a tournament?

Todd Terry · #10 11-15-2007, 01:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Given his previous desire to leave the table to play cash and his demeanor at the time, I thought he was actually steaming and his range was ATC, which makes me about 70/30. I also figured he'd be doing it on the next hand, so this was my spot to get those chips. I made it 24K to go, BB folded, he called and turned over T9o. My hand held.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't get it... why is this even a question if you are sure of your read that you are 70/30.

Do you think that you are really good enough to pass up 70/30 edges in a tournament?

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't say anywhere that I was sure of my read. I posted this because at the tournament I asked two players whose games I respect, one of whom is a good aggro player and one of whom is a good tight player, what they would do and got two strongly felt, different answers. My read wasn't based on anything other than what I posted in the OP, so I wanted to see if others would draw different conclusions.

Additionally, IMO the never pass up any situation that is in the least bit +cEV philosophy is a product of the super-fast structures of online tournaments, and I think this is an interesting spot because of the stack depth/buyin. Obviously if I was sure I was 70/30 I would not pass this up, the issue was how sure was I. You for one thought I could easily be an 80/20 dog here. Shannon, who's won quite a bit of money playing live MTTs, thought it was likely to be a flip and therefore not worth taking at this stage in the tournament. Accordingly, due to both the questions regarding the read and the philosophical issues of gambling for tons of BBs early in a deep stack 4-day event, I thought it was interesting enough to post.