Comm 40: Considered all three turn options

[ShawnHoo]

Same game as last post, except this is from earlier in the session when the game was better.

UTG limps, I raise two spots away with AsKd. I'm cold-called by the guy to my immediate left as well as by the button, blinds fold, limper calls.

A few possibly relevant notes:

UTG: is/was a prolific poster on rgp and obviously thinks about the game, but limps/plays way too many hands to be a winner and is one of the reasons I'm here. Plays well/decent/tricky postflop. He views me as tight/solid.

Cold-caller next to me: I've seen him openlimp in the CO with A8, call a raise from the SB, and call down on a AJ8xx board. (His opponent had JJ.) No idea how he views me.

Button: Weird dude in a football jersey who likes to play hands. Probably doesn't care about me.

Anyway, onto the flop: Qh9h5s

UTG checks, I bet (?), guy to my left folds, button calls. UTG check/raises, I call, button calls.

Turn: Qd

UTG bets.

What's my play?

[HOWMANY]

I don't see how you can do anything but fold.

[PokerBob]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't see how you can do anything but fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Garland]

Let's start with the flop. 4 ways and this flop in no way shape or form is good for you. Just because you pre-flop raised, doesn't mean you have to continue when the flop gets ugly. Just check and be ready to be done with it. Be happy if you can get a free card.

When the flop check-raise comes back to you, this might be controversial, but I most likely fold to the check-raise immediately. You're in a situation where hitting your card can become costly. Reverse dominated A, A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] or K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] completing flush, K completing straight, redraws for your opponents (but really none for you). The way I figure it, you have only 2 "good" outs: A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], and bad reverse implied odds.

The turn: What other option do you have but to fold? You're dead in the water.

Garland

[WMB]

I'll go against the grain and say a raise is o.k. here if you have a strong read that utg is drawing. He limped utg, which based on your description could mean j10s, kj hearts, maybe A5 hearts, etc. All these hands would make sense given the way he played the hand. If you think he's on a draw more than half the time here, go ahead and raise.

[n.s.]

[ QUOTE ]
When the flop check-raise comes back to you, this might be controversial, but I most likely fold to the check-raise immediately.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I want to fold to the c/r too. We are getting 12:1 here, but as you said there are very few cards that really make us happy, and even the "good" cards leave us open to redraws.

Definite fold on the turn, imo.

[andyfox]

Problem with doing anything but folding is that UTG would not put you on a Q, since you just called his check-raise on the flop with a 3rd player still in the hand.

And the problem with calling the flop check-raise is that this is not the type of player who will slow down on the turn if he's on a draw and that leaves you guessing sandwiched between him and the 3rd guy. Plus catching a king could give someone a straight and you don't have any hearts.

[private joker]

A Q9x flop with 2 hearts, and you holding none, seems like one of the worst spots to make a c-bet with AK. I'd consider checking the flop.... but I dunno, I'd probably just bet it out of momentum anyway. And I agree with Andy about the problems with calling the c/r...

That said, you got c/r and called, and now it's 3-handed to the turn. When the top card pairs, it's slightly less likely UTG was c/r a Q, and more likely he has JT or a heart draw. I can see a raise working here -- get button to fold his 9 or 77 or whatever, and get HU with the draw you're ahead of.

Doesn't sound like UTG is so good he'll eliminate a Q from your range based on your flop play. Your line looks like you might have AA too. It's a decent sized pot, and raising this turn has a better than insignificant chance of taking the pot. Of course if UTG 3-bets, you're against a set of 5s and wasted 2BB on a mis-timed move. But making good plays often makes you feel stupid.

[ssmallz]

Tough hand, I prolly just fold and be done with it on the turn but I can see the argument joker is making for raising. I'd need a much better read and possibly some alcohol to pull it off but it definatly has merrits to raise the turn for a free sd.

[ClarkNasty]

I don't think raising is nearly as bad as everyone else does. You almost certainly get it headsup, and if he's not the type to 3-ball with a draw here, the rest of the hand plays itself.