88 bubble help - Page 2

reno expat · #11 09-12-2007, 04:16 PM

read dependant. if you can push him off his hand, shove. if not, fold.

Plorel · #12 09-12-2007, 05:50 PM

reraise to 1000.
Push any flop.

ceavou22 · #13 09-12-2007, 06:00 PM

Seems like a shove if he is quite loose.

Orrrr... anyone for stop-n-go? Seems like a good spot for it if you think hes not folding much to a PF shove.

Niggel · #14 09-12-2007, 06:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Seems like a shove if he is quite loose.

Orrrr... anyone for stop-n-go? Seems like a good spot for it if you think hes not folding much to a PF shove.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have 1880 left and the pot is 900 when you just call his PF-Raise. I guess you are a little too deep to use a Stop'n Go.

I like pushing. If he is a moron he will bet/call with hands such as A6s or 55. If you are 100% sure, that you have no FE I think a fold is reasonable, but personally i don't like it.

Slim Pickens · #15 09-12-2007, 06:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (4 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button (t4735)
SB (t4165)
Hero (t2080)
UTG (t2520)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, Button raises to t400, 1 fold, Hero ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hero shoves one million percent of the time. Good hand + folding equity + weak opening = shove.

I'd give him an opening range of like {55-AA,A*,Broadway crap} and a shove-calling range of {TT+,AQ+}.

Niggel · #16 09-12-2007, 06:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (4 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button (t4735)
SB (t4165)
Hero (t2080)
UTG (t2520)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, Button raises to t400, 1 fold, Hero ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hero shoves one million percent of the time. Good hand + folding equity + weak opening = shove.

I'd give him an opening range of like {55-AA,A*,Broadway crap} and a shove-calling range of {TT+,AQ+}.

[/ QUOTE ]

I might be influenced by the result, but I give him a bigger shove-calling range [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Slim Pickens · #17 09-12-2007, 08:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (4 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button (t4735)
SB (t4165)
Hero (t2080)
UTG (t2520)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, Button raises to t400, 1 fold, Hero ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hero shoves one million percent of the time. Good hand + folding equity + weak opening = shove.

I'd give him an opening range of like {55-AA,A*,Broadway crap} and a shove-calling range of {TT+,AQ+}.

[/ QUOTE ]

I might be influenced by the result, but I give him a bigger shove-calling range [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Ha ha yeah I just saw what he had when he called. I tend to think of crap like that as a fluke and adjust my ranges like this. If he's raising KJo, he's raising a lot of other Broadway crap as I previously thought. To compensate for his random cosmic ray-induced nerve firings that make him call with KJo sometimes, I put one or two of the Broadway crap hands in his calling range so it equals a specific fraction of his rasing range. They're all pretty much two kinda-connected overcards so the equity 88 has is about the same. The really important thing is the fraction of his opening range he calls with, and I'd guess this is fairly constant even if he's randomly calling with KJo sometimes and folding it sometimes.

Slim Pickens · #18 09-12-2007, 08:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
reraise to 1000.
Push any flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

So basically minimize your folding equity twice instead of maximizing it once? I don't like it.

Also, stop-n-go (calling) creates a weird stack-size problem on the flop. You're almost deep enough to raise/fold but that's such a terrible line from an implied odds standpoint. That line only works against someone who is very bad and predictable, which is the kind of read that makes shoving preflop even better.

Alex_Rules · #19 09-12-2007, 09:28 PM

SHOVE!

Plorel · #20 09-13-2007, 04:05 AM

The only difference in reraising to 1100 and pushing any flop compared to reraising all-in directly would be if he calls the raise but folds with nothing hit.

A)
If he has 2 overcards (in 50% of the cases)his chance to improve on turn and river are 22%.
If he fold after the flop our $EQ 24.3%
In case of preflop all-in, our $EQ decreases to 0 in
22% of the cases and increases to ~ 28.7% in 78% of all cases. Makes an average $Eq of 22.39%.
Compared to 24.3% $Eq on the flop, it is $ev-.

B)
If he has one overcard (again in 50% of all cases)
his probability to improve after the flop is 11.1%.
Again, in 89 % of all cases our $Equity increases to 28.7%
and decreases to 0 in 11% of all cases. Makes an average
$Eq of 25.5%, compared 24.3% $FEQ.

Mixing case A and B up, you get an average $Eq of ~24%
compared to ~ 24.3% $FEq.

In this very simplified case, trying stop and go seems slightly more profitalbe then repushing directly.
And as you do have an Edge against those player in play,
stop'n go seems good here.
Maybe you could even make it 1150 to get more value.

You might of course hit your set on the flop while he hits nothing which happens in 8% of the cases but he might get a straight as well.
I think it depends on how big you consider your edge agaist those players. Up to the 55er, I think stopngo will pay.