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Old 04-17-2007, 07:13 AM
Slava_sky Slava_sky is offline
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Default Bluff not to win money, bluff to learn poker.

I am a bluffer. I have lost a lot of money, when I was bored to play and to wait for a cencored card and wanted to make action quicklier. I have won a lot of money, making good bluffs, but usually not from bluffs(though they bring money also), but when I was planning to bluff, but flop or turn brought me good combination, and opponents were ready to action.

The poker community convinces people to play "right". To choose the rights cards, to play "right" position, to play "right" against opponents.

But by playing "right" you don't learn poker. You win money, but you don't learn poker. Because you just repeat learned by heart actions without UNDERSTANDING what you are doing and WHY you are doing this.

At some time I even played 6-max without cards. I played only position. I didn't care what hand I had on the button - without raises behind me I made the one. Usually I went heads up on the flop, checked to me I bet the pot, I take the pot. Then I repeat the same on the CO, the only thing, that I lost the money, when button called my pf raise, so I learned quickly to pay attention

But the main money came to me not because of the pure bluffs, but when actual hand came. Of course I played QQ, KK, AA in any position(though threw away AK in UTG without any doubt), and sometimes flop or turn brought me great candies. And I have found, that I have won on those hands much more, than when I played "weak-tighty [censored]" and caught the same hands.

Because I have played those hands much more professionally. I have payed attention on the things which are essentional to bluff, but which don't seem so, when you have AA or a set and planning to double up: position, the number of opponents, their bets.

Before I knew, that those thing are important - but I didn't UNDERSTAND WHY.

By bluffing, when those thing are the most and only importand, I understood - why. I had my own meaning of them - not the Sklanskys one, not the Harrington one, not 2+2 one - but mine. And that's how I learned to use it.

And the other reason bluffing really teaches you - because it is ALWAYS your fault, when you lose the money in bluff. When you have good hand and lose, you always can say "I was unlucky and I did everything right". And a lot of losers say that. Even if you are right, your don't learn anything from saying that [censored]. But when you are bluffing - you don't have excuses. YOU made the decision to bluff, YOU made all the actions you made in that pot, and YOU made the decision how to bluff. No RNG helped your opponent to call you. So - the only thing left to you is to analyse, what YOU did wrong, and to realise, what you should have done. That's where learning process goes.

So, in my opinion, the only thing, that can help you learn the game more and become BETTER in poker - is bluffing.
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  #2  
Old 04-17-2007, 07:48 AM
SixT4 SixT4 is offline
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Default Re: Bluff not to win money, bluff to learn poker.

I agree. Can you please practice at my table? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
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  #3  
Old 04-17-2007, 09:08 AM
ottsville ottsville is offline
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Default Re: Bluff not to win money, bluff to learn poker.

web page
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  #4  
Old 04-17-2007, 09:13 AM
PJo336 PJo336 is offline
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Default Re: Bluff not to win money, bluff to learn poker.

where can I find more of these pooh bah posts? They are always very informative.
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Old 04-17-2007, 09:34 AM
SheridanCat SheridanCat is offline
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Default Re: Bluff not to win money, bluff to learn poker.

[ QUOTE ]

But by playing "right" you don't learn poker. You win money, but you don't learn poker. Because you just repeat learned by heart actions without UNDERSTANDING what you are doing and WHY you are doing this.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's why we study, so we understands the "whys" of our play. Perhaps you learn differently than most other people, but I have no problem understanding betting patterns, position, etc.; in fact, I'm not sure I understand how bluffing helps you learn this better.

[ QUOTE ]

So, in my opinion, the only thing, that can help you learn the game more and become BETTER in poker - is bluffing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was going to go through and refute your statements, but it's really pointless. Most of what you wrote is wrong, as far as it goes. A beginner who concentrates on bluffing in NL games will be crushed.

I don't deny that bluffing is part of the game and is a necessary skill to learn, but making it the core of your study is plain stupid.

Good luck.
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  #6  
Old 04-17-2007, 10:22 AM
DWarrior DWarrior is offline
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Default Re: Bluff not to win money, bluff to learn poker.

hint: I suggest you re-evaluate your understanding of poker.
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  #7  
Old 04-17-2007, 11:43 AM
ottsville ottsville is offline
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Default Re: Bluff not to win money, bluff to learn poker.

[ QUOTE ]
where can I find more of these pooh bah posts? They are always very informative.




[/ QUOTE ]



Also check the FAQ in the appropriate forum
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  #8  
Old 04-17-2007, 12:17 PM
PJo336 PJo336 is offline
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Default Re: Bluff not to win money, bluff to learn poker.

haha thanks
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  #9  
Old 04-17-2007, 12:29 PM
runout_mick runout_mick is offline
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Default Re: Bluff not to win money, bluff to learn poker.

Great post. All I can add is: Huh?


And specifically to the quote "No RNG helped your opponent to call you." I'd like to repeat: Huh?
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  #10  
Old 04-17-2007, 10:20 PM
pokerloser10056 pokerloser10056 is offline
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Default Re: Bluff not to win money, bluff to learn poker.

Bluffing can only be effective in few situations against LPP players and you should not expect to win more than the blinds. For example I only bluff if i am playing AK KJ and similar hands then get nothing on the flop. If checked to me I raise 3/4 of the pot to test the waters, I then check any call and fold to any re-raise.
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