Quick quiz

[dirtylobster]

[ QUOTE ]
Equity quiz.

You have AA vs average player. Flop is 9d 8c 4c.

A) what is a typical range that villain will check/call a bet with ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Any pair, any piece.
PPs: 22/33/55-77/
Sooted: AcXc (assuming we don't have Ac)KcXc
Connectors: QJ/QT/JT/J9/T9/T8/97/87/86
Other: AK obviously lol.

[ QUOTE ]
B) what is your equity against that range? (No pokerstove!)

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm. Against that whole range? I'd guess 62-ish.

[ QUOTE ]
C) Now you have A9 on the same flop. What is your equity ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting. We have the best hand against the whole range I put up there, hmm.. maybe 56?

[ QUOTE ]
D) Since we couldn't use pokerstove for this quiz, list at least 2 factors that you used to conclude on an equity number.

[/ QUOTE ]

We obviously haven't got lots of outs with AA, we can counterfeit turned 2 pair hands which we can't with A9. With A9 any turncard connected to the flop will probably alter our equity pretty much.

[ QUOTE ]
edit: Ranges for A) are not the most important part of this quiz. Assume if you want that you opened in 2nd position and he called in the BB

[/ QUOTE ]

This was fun, I should practice this a lot more (I may be way off). Gonna go stoving now. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[dirtylobster]

Wow I'm surprised about the results. I was about right about the relative strength between AA and A9 but the equity was a bit off.

[CrazyLond]

The question of a typical player's range does depend on the game: whether it is online/live, what casino/site, what time of day, previous action at table, etc.

I guess my range was a bit more narrow than DevinLake's. Part A is fairly subjective depending on what typical is. With the range he gave, I would guess AA is about 70% and A9 about 65%. He's right: there are more hands that A9 is dominating and so the equities in the two hands would be closer than they were in my range.

[dirtylobster]

Just to note, I excluded all 2 pair hands and sets assuming he'd donk or checkraise them.

[johnnybeef]

A.) Mid pairs, occasional straight draw etc.
B. 70%ish
c. 60%ish
d. intuition based on previous uses of poker stove. also, there are three levels; the hands in his range that you crush, the hands in his range that crush you, and the hands that you are flipping with. estimate how many are in each, act accordingly.

[tarheeljks]

i would think that A9 should be significantly lower than AA with a range that beyond monsters includes med-high suited hands, connectors, and single pairs. even though we were drawing slim against monsters w/ AA, we're much worse off w/ A9(from ~9% to 1%). also, w/A9 we lose equity to the overpairs that we had ~90% against w/AA. against high/broadway unpaired flush and straight draws AA is again better off b/c of overcards to our pair when holding A9.

edit: maybe not significantly lower but i don't think they are that close; no stove on this computer though.

[sebbb]

[ QUOTE ]
i would think that A9 should be significantly lower than AA with a range that beyond monsters includes med-high suited hands, connectors, and single pairs.

[/ QUOTE ]

A9 and AA have very different equities if you include overpairs. If you remove them, then I think it gets pretty close.

[tarheeljks]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i would think that A9 should be significantly lower than AA with a range that beyond monsters includes med-high suited hands, connectors, and single pairs.

[/ QUOTE ]

A9 and AA have very different equities if you include overpairs. If you remove them, then I think it gets pretty close.

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree. it makes sense to discount the overpairs. i hadn't really done any hard calcs; was just comparing the estimated equity against each group w/n the range (AA v A9) and i had all combos of TT-QQ in there which gives 18 combos that AA dominate but that A9 is dominated by. like you said that's gives AA a serious boost here. how about all TT combos and one combo of JJ? obv it fits the pf play better.

edit: maybe even just a couple combos of TT,

[ejay]

[ QUOTE ]
Equity quiz.

You have AA vs average player. Flop is 9d 8c 4c.

A) what is a typical range that villain will check/call a bet with ?
B) what is your equity against that range? (No pokerstove!)
C) Now you have A9 on the same flop. What is your equity ?
D) Since we couldn't use pokerstove for this quiz, list at least 2 factors that you used to conclude on an equity number.

edit: Ranges for A) are not the most important part of this quiz. Assume if you want that you opened in 2nd position and he called in the BB

[/ QUOTE ]

havent read the other responses but here i go........

I am assuming that a 'typical' opponent is someone thats 25-30 vpip and 10-12 pfr.

1. He will call with any fd, straight draws including possible gs (qj, qt maybe) along with any pair+draw combo and any 9/8 regardless of kicker + all over pairs. He may also peel with AK/AQ espcially if he has a club in his hand. I am sure he would lead with some of these hands but i am not sure which part so i will assume he c/c with most of the range above.

2. I would say that my equity is somewhere btw 60-66% range?? no stoving but i would be pretty dissapointed if this % was far diffrent in reality.

3. With A9, all overpairs but not much changes for the rest of his range so i would say somewhere in 56-60% range??/

4. I assumed that against all hands where he has a fd/sd i was well ahead unless he has a straight fd or something in which case he is in good shape. I am crushing TT-KK but i dint think that was a big part of his range so i didnt factor that in too much. I assumed that a good part of his range was hands where he had a pair+ some sort of draw and in that case he was in decent shape.

ooops didnt see last part of post... TT-KK is not at all likely because he likely would have 3b pf...

[Golfdish]

A)
TT,99,88,77,66,55,44
9X,8X,98,94,84
XcYc
67,7T,JT,JQ

Range changes based on what he'd call PF with but w.e this seems fine to me.

B) 68%
C) 73%
D) - A9 having more outs to improve than AA
- A9 limiting the no. of combinations of 2pairs or sets villain could have