Bottom two in raised pot 25NL

[Jeff_B]

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $.25 BB (6 handed) Ultimate Bet Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP ($22.64)
Hero ($33.02)
Button ($23.28)
SB ($16.89)
BB ($26.01)
UTG ($5.59)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $1</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $3.1</font>, Hero calls $2.10.

Flop: ($6.30) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets $6.3</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $25.2</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $31.5</font>.

Turn: ($63) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>

River: ($63) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>

Final Pot: $56.70

Preflop - SB and BB are huge donks
SB - 35/0/2 over 100 hands
BB - 40/10/3.7 over 500 hands

Button was huge nit. Not calling without aces type.
BB also stacked me at another table about 15 minutes ago when he cold called a raise and rivered two pair vs ak. doubt he realizes this though.

Any thoughts on the raise? and call of 3-bet? (pretty much narrowed his range IMO to JJ+)

I had been playing something like 24/20/10 since I sat and was bumping every CO/button with two donks in the blinds hoping they call fold to a c-bet

[Milky]

I don't like the call of his pf 3bet. Also I'd probably just push on the flop. No way to get away from this on the flop IMO.

[xoom]

Fold pre-flop. And fold to the re-raise as well, calling that without some very good reads that you can outplay villain post-flop is absolutely horrible. No need to get fancy at NL25.

Flop is standard.

[ QUOTE ]

I had been playing something like 24/20/10 since I sat and was bumping every CO/button with two donks in the blinds hoping they call fold to a c-bet

[/ QUOTE ]

HOPING? Donks don't usually like to give up easily. This seems like a bad strategy. Raise good hands and value bet a lot.

[stillnaive]

I think he's probably got JJ or overpair. I understand that you've got to get value out of the hand if he's calling this with an overpair, but the possibility of the board pairing and counterfeiting your two pair definitely exists, as does the possibility you're drawing very thin against JJJ. The problems obviously lie in your pot committedness after any raise.

How the heck is BB reraising with more than his stack?

[Jeff_B]

[ QUOTE ]
Fold pre-flop. And fold to the re-raise as well, calling that without some very good reads that you can outplay villain post-flop is absolutely horrible. No need to get fancy at NL25.

Flop is standard.

[ QUOTE ]

I had been playing something like 24/20/10 since I sat and was bumping every CO/button with two donks in the blinds hoping they call fold to a c-bet

[/ QUOTE ]

HOPING? Donks don't usually like to give up easily. This seems like a bad strategy. Raise good hands and value bet a lot.

[/ QUOTE ]

eh I had been hammering them for a while thought he might have been playing back or JJ+ figured if I hit something he gets stacked but tbh was prob too much to put in pre with a speculative hand.

[stillnaive]

I highly doubt anyone's really capable of folding two pair on such a dry board. In terms of EV, it comes down to how you weigh the possibilities that JJ is his hand. If you think it's a 50/50 chance or better, the push is -EV by about 20 cents (I'll post my math if anyone's curious). If you say he's more likely to have the overpair, then it's a plus EV play. Proceed with caution, obviously, because the flop action is entirely read dependent.

[stillnaive]

By the way, my math is based on the assuption that your pot of 63 is wrong. I don't understand how he can re-raise more than he has in his starting stack. If the pot numbers are truly different, EV changes.

[Kasane]

Fold pf each time it comes around to you. Sure, button is the right type, but neither blind seems like the right type to steal from with this marginal a hand.

As played, I'm going broke on the flop the same way. You're way ahead of villain's range.