Stupid preflop decision vs DeathDonkey - Page 3

PokerBob · #21 07-02-2007, 12:39 AM

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Position here helps a lot. Easy fold for 2-more from the BB, but from the button with a slightly larger pot you have to call. Capping has merits too IMO, but I think I prefer seeing if SB caps it himself so I know where I'm at.

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SB tried to tell you where you were at the first time around.

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Stop it. Joe said the person was passive. Not super duper passive or never ever ever ever raises passive. Dude is sitting in a 4-handed 50-100 limit holdem game. That alone should tell you that he's not the nittiest dude on the block. Even Passive Guy has more than JJ-AA, AK here.

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Well, then it clearly depends on the definition of passive. I assumed he used that term because the guy just doesn't raise much. I guess it is moot until Joe clarifies what 'passive' means.

andyfox · #22 07-02-2007, 12:44 AM

The description said super loose but passive pre-flop. "Super loose" doesn't indicate to me that you're not going to get action post-flop when you hit good.

emerson · #23 07-02-2007, 01:28 AM

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i call here but i'd fold KQo and AJo is that retarded?

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Not retarded at all. You are folding hands that are likely dominated and playing a hand that is not likely to want cards already in the hands of opponents.

joker122 · #24 07-02-2007, 02:25 AM

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i need to tell you the way chris described the hand to me. he said joe raised and then sb reraised and dd described him like joe did. then he said "and then im in the bb, and im playing the way i play, and i 4 bet."

even if chris is playing super tight in this spot which i doubt he is (selective is one thing, tight is another), 97s is not going to be in much harm here getting 5 to 1 with position and one of the players being passive. all sorts of button raising hands belong in the muck here, 97s is not one of them.

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you are neglecting the fact that SB may very well have a capping hand here, and since he never raises, the probability that he is sitting on AA goes up a lot.

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Additionally, not only is the probability way high that the SB has a premium hand, he is said to play passively, so the times your 97 makes two pair/trips/straight/flush, you aren't even going to get excessive action.

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but the converse is more true and very beneficial for us e.g. we won't get punished too severley when we make a second best or when we push draws.

bugstud · #25 07-02-2007, 02:40 AM

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Position here helps a lot. Easy fold for 2-more from the BB, but from the button with a slightly larger pot you have to call. Capping has merits too IMO, but I think I prefer seeing if SB caps it himself so I know where I'm at.

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SB tried to tell you where you were at the first time around.

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Stop it. Joe said the person was passive. Not super duper passive or never ever ever ever raises passive. Dude is sitting in a 4-handed 50-100 limit holdem game. That alone should tell you that he's not the nittiest dude on the block. Even Passive Guy has more than JJ-AA, AK here.

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talking with joe today, that was the exact range he thought he had pre by 3betting.

PokerBob · #26 07-02-2007, 03:01 AM

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i need to tell you the way chris described the hand to me. he said joe raised and then sb reraised and dd described him like joe did. then he said "and then im in the bb, and im playing the way i play, and i 4 bet."

even if chris is playing super tight in this spot which i doubt he is (selective is one thing, tight is another), 97s is not going to be in much harm here getting 5 to 1 with position and one of the players being passive. all sorts of button raising hands belong in the muck here, 97s is not one of them.

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you are neglecting the fact that SB may very well have a capping hand here, and since he never raises, the probability that he is sitting on AA goes up a lot.

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Additionally, not only is the probability way high that the SB has a premium hand, he is said to play passively, so the times your 97 makes two pair/trips/straight/flush, you aren't even going to get excessive action.

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but the converse is more true and very beneficial for us e.g. we won't get punished too severley when we make a second best or when we push draws.

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yeah, but isn't the whole point of getting involved here to make a big hand and win a big pot? implied odds in limit are tough enough to capitalize on as it is. with a passive opponent, we just aren't gonna win that much postflop.

Patriks · #27 07-02-2007, 07:58 AM

I only play online, but call my complete range in this setup.

Joe Tall · #28 07-02-2007, 08:34 AM

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Position here helps a lot. Easy fold for 2-more from the BB, but from the button with a slightly larger pot you have to call. Capping has merits too IMO, but I think I prefer seeing if SB caps it himself so I know where I'm at.

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SB tried to tell you where you were at the first time around.

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Stop it. Joe said the person was passive. Not super duper passive or never ever ever ever raises passive. Dude is sitting in a 4-handed 50-100 limit holdem game. That alone should tell you that he's not the nittiest dude on the block. Even Passive Guy has more than JJ-AA, AK here.

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Ah, no. I game select very well, thanks. I found this game and didn't even answer the phone when DD called me it was so good. He had to find me in it, then this hand happened. The SB calls with many hands here, 99, A6o, T8o, QTo, but 3-bets premium. I was sure of it.

When this was 2 bets back to me, I thought, "20% cold equity, 22% at best".

Joe Tall · #29 07-02-2007, 08:35 AM

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The description said super loose but passive pre-flop. "Super loose" doesn't indicate to me that you're not going to get action post-flop when you hit good.

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*DING*

Schneids · #30 07-02-2007, 09:22 AM

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The description said super loose but passive pre-flop. "Super loose" doesn't indicate to me that you're not going to get action post-flop when you hit good.

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*DING*

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Maybe we need to make some clarifications:

"super loose," to me, means the guy isn't a folder, and calls a lot. A loose player is showdown bound.

If we are saying you will get action if you make a hand, that means he is "aggressive" postflop.

In my mind, getting 1 bet per street postflop (the likely case vs a "loose" opponent) is not excessive action, as we need an "aggressive" opponent for that.