when has a band "sold out" ?

[bustedchucks]

I was talking to a girl on new year's eve who said she liked nirvana "before they sold out". I countered that they never sold out ( i just mis-typed that as souled out, which maybe kurt did) and listed some reasons: the lead singer shot himself in the face, not exactly the kind of action you'd expect of someone with Billboard Top 20 aspirations; the follow up to thier commercially successful album was a sloppy affair and included such titles as "rape me" and the tongue-in-cheek "radio friendly unit shifter".

She said they sold out with nevermind and she only liked them before that. She was 27, and from PA. Bleach came out in '89. I have a really hard time imagining a nine year old girl in pennsyltucky being hip to the local music scene 3,000 miles away. So she was talking [censored] cause she thought it would make her seem cool. Whatever, who cares.

But it got me thinking. People love to cry sellout and bash everything but a bands first ablum. It's weak, artists grow.


what does sellout mean?
Are metallica sellouts for making lighter albums or did they just evolve in, well, a crappy direction.
Is anyone who did a gap commercial a sellout?
If weezer put out pinkerton before the blue album would the cool kids hate them?
we do know that slayer never sold out. thats a brutal bunch of fifty year-olds.
Can a band be a sell-out from the beggining or do they have to do it over time?


Thougts, opinions and examples of bands/artits that are sellouts and how and when they became so welcomed.

[sushijerk]

Technically, sellouts are when a band gets popular and deviates from their original album sound to potentially make themselves more mainstream accessible. However nowadays it is meaningless since so much buzz can be generated by a local "scene" that a band can actually sell out before even producing a popular album or getting thier songs beyond college/internet radio.

Metallica got less fans so they did not sell out, even if they were trying to.

By definition Gap would only hire artists who have already sold out. The ads with Common were a sellout of such complete proportions he might as turn in his street card and move in with Bill Cosby.

If Pinkerton got popular the first time around and not 5 years later, then yes.

Don't know about Slayer.

Definitely possible from the beginning. General consensus is Keane has achieved this to perfection.

Nothing is any good if other people like it.

[Deorum]

I often label people who use the term 'sellout' as people who lack much independent though. They hear someone say a band "sold out" or see the band moving in a different direction, for whatever reason, and assume it's a bad thing and that somehow the musicians have done something completely unacceptable. These are the same people who honestly believe that "the man is trying to keep them down." They cling to the past, refusing to accept the inevitable because they don't want things to change (such as the people I mentioned in The Simpsons thread who clung to the show, maintaining that it was still funny as ever long past its prime). They don't understand economics. They don't understand that people's tastes change. They don't understand how things work in the real world. They just want everything to remain static.

People like this would use the argument: "it's not supposed to be about the money. It's supposed to be about the music." But if a band has found a way to make music that a lot of people like, so what if they do that? Who are you to say that they don't enjoy that type of music themselves? Why does it matter if they are making a lot of money off of it? If you want to work at McDonnald's all day and have a band with which you can make music that only a select few like (and I would argue that a lot who claim they like it really don't - all part of the 'clinging' I mentioned earlier, a refusal to admit they don't like something simply because they want to like the music that their friends like ever so badly) fine, but don't judge somebody else as unacceptable simply because he or she chooses a different path.

Finally, why does it matter even if they don't enjoy the music they are making? They are making a living, and making other people happy. What have they done wrong other than cease to make the music that you like, through nobody's decision but their own? It's their life, their band, and their decision. They owe you nothing. You chose to listen to them in the first place.

And if you think all this sounds harsh, that I am being unreasonable or don't know what I am talking about because I like 'sellouts', I have news for you: I used to be one of these people.

[youtalkfunny]

Before I tell this story, a history lesson is in order for the younger readers:

Quiet Riot hit the scene with their "Metal Health" album. The heavy-metal kids loved it.




It took almost a year before the pop stations started to play the hits from that album, "Bang Your Head (Metal Health)", and "Cum on Feel the Noize".

So I'm in my car, riding with a friend, and one of those songs comes on the radio. I turn it up. My friend turns up his nose. "I don't like them any more. They sold out."

"What do you mean?", I ask.

"Now they're a pop band. I don't like pop music, I like heavy metal."

"But this is the same song you loved last year! They released the album; you liked it; and now that it's drawing a larger audience, the band has somehow wronged you?"

"They sold out," he maintained, without elaboration.

[MrWookie]

[ QUOTE ]
I often label people who use the term 'sellout' as people who lack much independent though. They hear someone say a band "sold out" or see the band moving in a different direction, for whatever reason, and assume it's a bad thing and that somehow the musicians have done something completely unacceptable. These are the same people who honestly believe that "the man is trying to keep them down." They cling to the past, refusing to accept the inevitable because they don't want things to change (such as the people I mentioned in The Simpsons thread who clung to the show, maintaining that it was still funny as ever long past its prime). They don't understand economics. They don't understand that people's tastes change. They don't understand how things work in the real world. They just want everything to remain static.

People like this would use the argument: "it's not supposed to be about the money. It's supposed to be about the music." But if a band has found a way to make music that a lot of people like, so what if they do that? Who are you to say that they don't enjoy that type of music themselves? Why does it matter if they are making a lot of money off of it? If you want to work at McDonnald's all day and have a band with which you can make music that only a select few like (and I would argue that a lot who claim they like it really don't - all part of the 'clinging' I mentioned earlier, a refusal to admit they don't like something simply because they want to like the music that their friends like ever so badly) fine, but don't judge somebody else as unacceptable simply because he or she chooses a different path.

Finally, why does it matter even if they don't enjoy the music they are making? They are making a living, and making other people happy. What have they done wrong other than cease to make the music that you like, through nobody's decision but their own? It's their life, their band, and their decision. They owe you nothing. You chose to listen to them in the first place.

And if you think all this sounds harsh, that I am being unreasonable or don't know what I am talking about because I like 'sellouts', I have news for you: I used to be one of these people.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice post.

And to add a little more to the discussion, if a band changes their sound, they'll be accused of selling out. If they don't, they'll be accused by the exact same people of being one-trick has-beens. The culture of elitism amidst hipster wannabe-music-critics is largely retarded.

[RivaLiva]

To me selling out is when a band goes against it's roots and makes records that the record companies want them to make instead of what they want to make. It's smart on there side because they get paid and probably more popular but they also are considered sell out to the hardcore fans.

[LionelHutz00]

I think that selling out definitely exists. What the public wants and what the artist wants to make are rarely the same thing. Most artists must find some balance between making good music and selling records. When an artist chooses to balance in favor of selling records, they are sacrificing their artistic vision at the expense of making money. IMO, that's the definition of selling out.

However, I think that when indie hipsters label a band as "sell-outs," it's usually just a cop-out because indie hipsters define themselves by liking music that's unpopular. Once music that they like becomes popular, they must find a way to distance themselves from the music by labeling the artists as sell-outs.... Even if the sell-out song is from the same album that they loved, like Quiet Riot.

[krazyace5]

When musicians/bands do stupid [censored] like this. Of course Johnny Cash gets a pass since his estate is responsible for this.

levis commercial

[Slow Play Ray]

I think Maynard James Keenan said it best:

[ QUOTE ]

All you know about me is what Ive sold you, dumb f**k.
I sold out long before you ever even heard my name.
I sold my soul to make a record, dipsh*t, and you bought one.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Coffee]

I agree with a lot of what MrWookie said. Most people who refer to many bands as sellouts are typically people who are trying to be emo or misanthropic because they think it makes them look cool to say that Nirvana sold out, Metallica sold out, etc.

However, sudden radical shifts in musical direction that seem to be done in order to bolster sales are what really selling out means. The only examples that really come to mind are people like Stevie Wonder(from Songs in the Key of Life to "I Just Called to Say I Love You"???...wtf?) or Michael Bolton, who was in Blackjack and toured with Ozzy Osbourne before he became the infamous "no-talent ass-clown who became famous and started winning Grammys".