Is it still a "suckout" even if the card was free?

Powder · #1 08-14-2006, 02:14 AM

I know this may sound like a rhetorical question, but a really dumb conversation at a poker table tonight has me wondering about this. I was playing with a guy who I played with last weekend in a big hand, it went like this in a 1-2NL game:

At this point I have roughly $550 in front of me. He is in the BB with about $1000. I'm in middle position with AQs and I raise to 15, someone in late position calls and the BB calls. The flop is K-J-8 rainbow. Everyone checks the flop. The turn is a T, giving me the nut straight. The BB bets 30, I raise to 60, he re-raises to 160, at this point I push all in and he calls. He turns over pocket kings and I say to him something in sense of "I hope the board doesn't pair and you suck out on me" or something like that. Well the river comes with some trash and I win this pot.

Well anyway this guy says to me tonight that the comment I made about me hoping he doesn't suck out on me was stupid because I really sucked out on him first. I just thought to myself how he played the hand horribly and laughed it off. Although I tried not to pay it any attention, I do wonder now, did I actually suck out on him? If he would have fired in anything over $25 on the turn and I called, then yes I would agree that I sucked out. But hell he gave me the card for free, not my fault.

mrh86 · #2 08-14-2006, 02:21 AM

It sounds like he slowplayed his hand against more than one person. I wouldn't even slowplay it against one person in most circumstances. So basically, he let you get there, which is not a suckout, and he got all his money in bad. If the board had paired, he would've sucked out on you. Sucking out only occurs when most of the money had gone in with one hand way ahead only to be beaten on later streets.

Gonso · #3 08-14-2006, 02:26 AM

Ditto above. That wasn't a suckout at all. He has no one to blame but himself for that hideous play.

NewUser2006 · #4 08-14-2006, 03:04 AM

The suckout count starts when the money goes in.

FW Andy · #5 08-14-2006, 09:52 AM

You had infinite pot odds to draw out. I agree with the others. No suckout. Maybe and outdraw but no suckout.

gmack15 · #6 08-14-2006, 10:32 AM

Poker winnings come from other peoples mistakes. His mistake was not betting the nuts (Set of K) after the flop. He should have bet half/all the pot so the odds are not there to call your draw.

Nice hand.

UreAteUp2 · #7 08-14-2006, 10:45 AM

It's not a suckout. A good suckout would be AK vs A3...flop comes Axx and you both push. Then on the turn out comes a 3 and river is a 3.

LetsPlay1969 · #8 08-14-2006, 10:52 AM

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The suckout count starts when the money goes in.

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ditto

UreAteUp2 · #9 08-14-2006, 11:23 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Poker winnings come from other peoples mistakes. His mistake was not betting the nuts (Set of K) after the flop. He should have bet half/all the pot so the odds are not there to call your draw.

Nice hand.

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Your telling me your laying down a nut straight draw with 2 cards to come even if your not getting pot odds to make the play?... [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]...hell fire would I love to play poker against someone who does it entirely by the book... [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

RAHZero · #10 08-14-2006, 11:41 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Poker winnings come from other peoples mistakes. His mistake was not betting the nuts (Set of K) after the flop. He should have bet half/all the pot so the odds are not there to call your draw.

Nice hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your telling me your laying down a nut straight draw with 2 cards to come even if your not getting pot odds to make the play?... [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]...hell fire would I love to play poker against someone who does it entirely by the book... [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

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LOL, I would love to play poker against someone who calls potsized bets in raised pots with a gutshot.

OP raised to $15 preflop in this hand, meaning the pot was about $45 on the flop. If villain had potted the flop, OP would be getting 2:1 to call on a draw that was worse than 10:1 to hit, thus a call would be a mistake according to the FTOP (a ten is hero's only out against a set of kings). In a 1-2 game, hero is very unlikely to have the implied odds needed to make this call, even if he stacks villain every time he hits his draw. 11 out of ten times, hero will lose $45, meaning he has to win almost $500 ($495 actually) to profit on his call. No way is he winning that much everytime in a 1-2 game, as villain's stack was likely much less than $500.