Torrents not allowed, but links to paid content for free OK?

[El Diablo]

In this thread, 2+2 mod Jurollo makes the following statements regarding the posting of backdoor links into ESPN's PPV coverage of the WSOP that allowed access to this PPV without paying the required fee. His statements regarding this are:

"Taking $20 from a multimillion dollar company generally wont be seen as immoral by the masses."

"the US government is trying to become morality police already, as a mod on 2+2 I dont need to go crazy about trying to enforce fringe morality issues."

"As I stated taking $20 from a multi million dollar company is much different morally then taking it from a friend or what not, which is likely why there was no intervention that night."

"I, personally, feel a lot different about ripping songs from a struggling indie band then I did about getting ESPN PPV for free."

"So there are varying degrees here and mods have no say in whether or not to enforce the torrent rule, this was a judgement call. I will say that I saw the threads, used them and at no time was going to delete them other then deleting repetitious ones. I wont make any excuse, I personally, saw no problem with these threads"

I think it is pretty f'in ridiculous for a site to have policies in place about the posting of links to copyrighted materials and punish users for posting such material, yet have mods endorsing forms of this behavior. Seems to me that any mod who does not feel he should delete such content really has no place being a mod at a forum that claims to be very serious about copyright violations and other such activities. In fact, given the nature of the statements above and 2+2's previous stance on torrents and other such things, seems like the most appropriate action would be for Jurollo to be banned. Jurollo obviously is very familiar with 2+2 policy and made a specific decision to allow that content to be promoted on the site, even though his role as mod involves deleting such content. Or maybe I am incorrect about 2+2's position on this issue.

[PITTM]

[ QUOTE ]

I think it is pretty f'in ridiculous...

[/ QUOTE ]

circumventing profanity filter. ban. std.

rj

ps. yeah, ban jurollo too.

[Tron]

Seems pretty ridiculous to me.

[Jurollo]

Wow. You are really rallying the troops here, which surprises me. Anyhoo, I will stand by the fact that I wouldnt have deleted those posts that night. At the time, and until like today, I didnt realize it was a backdoor but rather thought it was a link that some received and therefore I gave everyone here the chance to receive it as well. I still do not fully understand how the feed was given out for free and probably never will as I am not that technical of a person. Not knowing HOW the feed was working for somebody changes this issue a lot, while I wont say I didnt think it was stealing, I did, using a link that was found within ESPN.com's domain and replicating the feed in some other manner are polar opposites.

Why exactly you have made this thread I dont know, however, you push to get me banned is absurd. It is not my job to police fringe moral (which at the time and even currently I think this is) issues, but rather to enforce the directives handed down from the top as well as creating a sense of community, eliminating noise (like this thread), and also protect people from being attacked when it isnt needed. This isnt the first time you have attacked me and frankly I dont really care what you think at this point. My thought was that we had made ammends from a previous spat however, this is apparently not the case. I felt the same about RJ (even using his search post in MTTC), however, as I said, I am here to stay unless Mat or Mason tell me otherwise and posts like this in the end will be swept away for the nonsense laced with personal vendettas that is truly is.
~Justin

[El Diablo]

Jurollo,

"I didnt realize it was a backdoor but rather thought it was a link that some received and therefore I gave everyone here the chance to receive it as well."

Please, this backtracking is ridiculous. At least keep your positions consistent. Now claiming that you "didn't realize this was a backdoor to avoid the $20 charge" just makes you look silly.

As for this post, I am making it because your actions are ridiculous and the hypocrisy displayed by mods from time to time is just ridiculous.

I have no vendetta against you. Whenever someone acts in manners that I consider inappropriate (users or mods), I speak up. The fact that I have done so multiple times regarding your actions is simply a factor of the number of times you have shown poor judgement in your actions. If you really think I criticized you for things that did not show either a lack of integrity or very questionable judgement, please point these things out to me. Until then, please do not refer to my pointing out your poor judgement as being an "attack."

I do think that mods should be held to higher standards. You signed up for a role here and I think that you should act a certain way in upholding that role. In the past you have done stuff in the MTT forum as a mod that you had not allowed normal users to do (I believe it was soliciting funds for yourself or something like that). In this case you made a decision to let something slide because you did not think it was a big deal to "take $20 from a multi million dollar company" So, I guess you would not have a problem with someone posting electronic copies of 2+2 books on other forums?

[Jurollo]

Again... taking a video feed from ESPN and physically taking something from a store or something is a totally different ballgame and you know that. We do not live in a black and white world and your assertions make it fairly obvious that you see the world in this manner. There are varying shades of grey and in the end there is nothing that is 100%. Each decision I have made is not made in a vaccum and is somewhat like arguing balls and strikes. The solicitation of backing was never a problem in the past until you decided to attack me over it and in the end it was decided, due to nothing on my part, that those threads wouldnt be allowed anymore due to the fact that 2+2 didnt want to take any chances of people getting stiffed on the deal. Once again this is not a morality issue other than the fact that you saw that and this as wrong and have decided to take action with your strange set of ethics and morals and attack me for my stance on this issue. In the end you are selectively ethical and moral and I have no time to argue petty issues like this with you any longer. That being said, think of me what you like, I do not care either way.
~Justin

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Masked Man:

I don't have the specifics about your precise complaint, so I won't comment on it. However, at Two Plus Two it is important that we respect all copyright laws. Even small instances should not be tolerated because small instances can eventually lead to larger ones.

Best wishes,
Mason

[El Diablo]

MM,

Your policies are quite clear indeed, and wrt copyright violations and stuff like that, I agree w/ your positions on this issue (I, along with astroglide and others, have had numerous lengthy discussions arguing this topic in OOT against a number of users who share Jurollo's attitude).

Here is a summary of what occurred:

Link to ESPN PPV for free was posted.

ESPN fixed the error on their site.

Users asked "feed no longer available for free, any way I can still backdoor it for free?"

Other users posted "yes, here is backdoor feed to get around ESPN security that makes you pay for it."

Jurollo decided this violation was not a big deal for the reasons he has stated in the thread, and therefore did not delete the thread.

Today someone asks about a torrent, Lloyd explains that that is not allowed here, other user wonders why the PPV backdoor was allowed to be posted, long thread ensues.

I post here because I feel the selective enforcement of various policies by mods is ridiculous and mods should behave in a certain manner and held to a certain standard.

[Jurollo]

[ QUOTE ]
MM,

Link to ESPN PPV for free was posted.

ESPN fixed the error on their site.

Users asked "feed no longer available for free, any way I can still backdoor it for free?"

Other users posted "yes, here is backdoor feed to get around ESPN security that makes you pay for it."

Jurollo decided this violation was not a big deal for the reasons he has stated in the thread, and therefore did not delete the thread.

Today someone asks about a torrent, Lloyd explains that that is not allowed here, other user wonders why the PPV backdoor was allowed to be posted, long thread ensues.

I post here because I feel the selective enforcement of various policies by mods is ridiculous and mods should behave in a certain manner and held to a certain standard.

[/ QUOTE ]

You DO realize that I never saw the backdoor thread and also didnt troll the main thread outside of notifications right?
~Justin

[El Diablo]

Jurollo,

I do not live in a black and white world. However, when I sign up to play a certain role someplace, I live by those rules. I do not agree with all 2+2 policies, but when I participate here, I abide by them. It is clear what the 2+2 stance is regarding things like "taking a video feed from ESPN" or posting torrents or posting electronic copies of 2+2 books. Even though you might not think those things are wrong, it is part of your responsibility as a mod to delete those things. It is not up to you as a mod to practice selective enforcement based on how right/wrong you think something is when it is in clear violation of 2+2 policy.

And please don't say something ridiculous like "I didn't realize it was a backdoor feed for a PPV broadcast that was being charged for" because it was perfectly clear to everyone in the threads, including you, what was being posted. And you already stated the reason you did not delete the thread was not because you did not realize it was wrong. You didn't delete it because you didn't think stealing $20 from ESPN was a big deal.