TT first hand at table!

[Jay_Whufc]

What range do you put SB on Ama?

[ama0330]

Three groups - premium hands (jj+, AKs) mid strength hands (mid pairs, AQs, AJs) and crap (Ace-nothing, air, 76s etc)

There are two relevant factors here. One is that no matter what his holding he has played the hand terribly, and the second is that we know nothing about him at all. For that reason I weight his range as 65/25/10 for good/med/crap.

given that with this assigned weighting we are behind or flipping with overcards 90% of the time its an easy fold for me.

[cubase]

Grunch.

I shove here. The SB's range is pretty much AK, AQ, AJ, and PP's like 77-99. Occasionally he will have AA/KK or QQ (and if so, take notes), but I've rarely seen it.

With all the dead money in the pot against this range, it's a clear shove.

Hand 0: 53.671% 53.46% 00.21% 461401200 1778850.00 { TT }
Hand 1: 46.329% 46.12% 00.21% 398042316 1778850.00 { QQ+, 99-77, AJs+, AJo+ }

He could have lower PP's as well than 77, I have seen some folks do this with 22-99, but it is usually when they are ultra short on cash. If you have $50 and they have $18 or so, they limp, you raise, they shove, it's almost always 22-TT, AK, AQ, AJ, ATs, and sometimes even Axs.

Note: If the button comes along for the ride, it just makes your shove even better value. He almost always has Ax or a PP smaller than yours if he calls.

[IlPug]

[ QUOTE ]
Three groups - premium hands (jj+, AKs) mid strength hands (mid pairs, AQs, AJs) and crap (Ace-nothing, air, 76s etc)

There are two relevant factors here. One is that no matter what his holding he has played the hand terribly, and the second is that we know nothing about him at all. For that reason I weight his range as 65/25/10 for good/med/crap.

given that with this assigned weighting we are behind or flipping with overcards 90% of the time its an easy fold for me.

[/ QUOTE ]

why is it 65 with premium hands? While I'm not sure if I agree with the other posters, I am inclined to think that his range is more likely a mid-strength hand. Can you explain your reasoning here?

[Jay_Whufc]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Three groups - premium hands (jj+, AKs) mid strength hands (mid pairs, AQs, AJs) and crap (Ace-nothing, air, 76s etc)

There are two relevant factors here. One is that no matter what his holding he has played the hand terribly, and the second is that we know nothing about him at all. For that reason I weight his range as 65/25/10 for good/med/crap.

given that with this assigned weighting we are behind or flipping with overcards 90% of the time its an easy fold for me.

[/ QUOTE ]

why is it 65 with premium hands? While I'm not sure if I agree with the other posters, I am inclined to think that his range is more likely a mid-strength hand. Can you explain your reasoning here?

[/ QUOTE ]

Im with you, using Amas range, Im weighting it 10 / 60-80 / 20-40 with the most important part being 10% for the premium range, Im quite sure they have a premium hand no where near 65% here

[Daniel LeClaire]

I'm surprised to see so many people saying just to call preflop. Had you called, 8 other posters would be in here saying to 3 bet lol.

Personally, I like the 3 bet preflop. No one has shown strength and you figure to have the best hand. After BU calls, and SB reraises, I would shove. SB has $28 in his stack and this is a donkey move. His range is huge. With the dead money in the pot, it more than makes up for the times you are behind.

[IlPug]

i dont know, if they're really bad, they could be doing it more often than 10% i think, im just trying to see his reasoning here, so i can make a decision myself, atm, its pretty close, even if that makes me a flip-flopper after my earlier post.

[ama0330]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Three groups - premium hands (jj+, AKs) mid strength hands (mid pairs, AQs, AJs) and crap (Ace-nothing, air, 76s etc)

There are two relevant factors here. One is that no matter what his holding he has played the hand terribly, and the second is that we know nothing about him at all. For that reason I weight his range as 65/25/10 for good/med/crap.

given that with this assigned weighting we are behind or flipping with overcards 90% of the time its an easy fold for me.

[/ QUOTE ]

why is it 65 with premium hands? While I'm not sure if I agree with the other posters, I am inclined to think that his range is more likely a mid-strength hand. Can you explain your reasoning here?

[/ QUOTE ]

Im with you, using Amas range, Im weighting it 10 / 60-80 / 20-40 with the most important part being 10% for the premium range, Im quite sure they have a premium hand no where near 65% here

[/ QUOTE ]

we know quite literally nothing about our opponent other than that he has played the hand poorly. what we DO know is that he has put half his stack in the pot and likely wants to put the rest in also. now he might be dumb, but given that we know nothing about him we have to assume that he's got at least AQs+, in my opinion. I can almost completely discount hands like 77-88.

[Jay_Whufc]

Not that it really matters, I shoved figuring to be in a coinflip (with money in pot making it +EV) and quite sure I was not crushed all that often, he had A6o, turned an Ace, nice.
I suppose it comes down to a matter of opinion really.
I have seen this kind of play made by so much crap, like any Ace, 2 broadway cards, mid PP etc that I was quite happy to get it in here.
Also, I think wslees posts are very good, especially the point about the first raise being a min raise, if UTG raises to 4BB and everyone else calls, I think Im much more inclined to just call.

[IlPug]

ama,

i've agreed with you so far, and i have to say i'm probably in your boat, if only marginally, for the fact that i dont think i would want to gamble in this spot right now. i don't know if we can just abt discount smaller PPs, a dumbass might play it this way (limping for 'set-value', then reraising figuring they're ahead and scared of playing the hand post flop), and we cant really rule out SB as a dumb ass. i also dont think he's making this play with premium hands 65% of the time, but think its probably more than 10%. so, is your reasoning that, because he's dumb, he's gonna have AQs+ more often than a smaller PP? and why?

again, im just trying to see your line of thinking so i can make up my own.