Help me figure the math - Page 2

mikehildebrand · #11 05-22-2007, 06:58 PM

Like I mentioned to Small Fry, the frequency that I play with these guys, there is not a lot of movement in hand selection. Needless to say, I was only right on 1 of the hands, but close on the other two.

mikehildebrand · #12 05-22-2007, 06:59 PM

Thanks Gonso, I am actually going to buy that book today, I have heard such good things.

mikehildebrand · #13 05-22-2007, 07:05 PM

Alright, everybody responded with a lot of respect for the game, and no flame, thanks for that. Here is what I was thinking when I pushe. Rottersod was very close with your thought process on this. I have such a TA image, I wanted to give them something to remember, Iw as on a freroll and I figured, I was drawing, pre-flop. I KNEW I couldn't beat a made hand better than 55 preflop. Player 2 did have AA, that was my only correct read. Player 3 who tanked and tanked actually had QKd, he told me later he was thinking similar to me and put player 2 on JJ. Player 4, who I thought had AK, was on TJd. So there was a LOT of live cards out there, more than I had hoped when I pushed.
I DID flop a 4 with a board of 842 rainbow with a spade, I turned another spade and riverd the 5 for two pair. Of course in my mind, this was not my best play, but I am really trying to figure the math for things like implied odds and wrap my head around +EV. I have read the coin flip scenario over and over, and still, sometimes it elludes me. Thanks for everyones posts and advice!

Precept2 · #14 05-22-2007, 07:12 PM

Fold.

Rottersod · #15 05-22-2007, 07:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Alright, everybody responded with a lot of respect for the game, and no flame, thanks for that. Here is what I was thinking when I pushe. Rottersod was very close with your thought process on this. I have such a TA image, I wanted to give them something to remember, Iw as on a freroll and I figured, I was drawing, pre-flop. I KNEW I couldn't beat a made hand better than 55 preflop. Player 2 did have AA, that was my only correct read. Player 3 who tanked and tanked actually had QKd, he told me later he was thinking similar to me and put player 2 on JJ. Player 4, who I thought had AK, was on TJd. So there was a LOT of live cards out there, more than I had hoped when I pushed.
I DID flop a 4 with a board of 842 rainbow with a spade, I turned another spade and riverd the 5 for two pair. Of course in my mind, this was not my best play, but I am really trying to figure the math for things like implied odds and wrap my head around +EV. I have read the coin flip scenario over and over, and still, sometimes it elludes me. Thanks for everyones posts and advice!

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice. Not only did you take down a good pot but you DID improve your image. Meta game play is an important part of poker.

mikehildebrand · #16 05-22-2007, 07:56 PM

The best part was that aces was on tilt with me for so long after, I ended up beating him for some more cash all night. He never knew what I had. He is a friend, but we were playing poker, and though he was steaming about it, its all good now.

Small Fry · #17 05-22-2007, 09:08 PM

Even if you put these guys on overpairs / overcards for a range rather than getting so specific as you did you'll still be about 20% or 4:1, which you thought you'd get with your read on the button. Obviously you're behind but isn't it about the odds vs. the pot size. So if you're getting better than 4:1 you should be happy to call this all day long.

As it was the button folded but you went with your read. Oh well, can't be right all the time. And even if it didn't pay off this time (even though it did) it still was a move they'd remember for a while.

You might want to be prepared to possibly get a little more action on some hands in the future.... [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

jjflash · #18 05-23-2007, 08:25 PM

I have read all of the replies and here is what I think (not that it realy means much).

I LIKE THE PLAY.

Sometime in no-limit, the play is not about winning the pot. It is sometimes about setting up to win a pot later. Sometimes is about changing an image. Sometimes it is about putting someone else on tilt. And sometimes it is even about gambling when you are taking slightly the worst of it. I am sure that I will have a lot of people who disagree with the previous statement...but I stand behind it 100%. But really what is the worst thing that happens there...you lose a big pot with not much invested. And, you have just confused the hell out of everyone at the table. They now have no idea how to react to you...and that my friend is huge EV. The only down side that I can find in the whole situation is that there are no implied odds, but this may work to your benifit in this situation given that all the money is in preflop and you can't get chased out of the pot on the flop. I would also like to add that it would be a horrible tourny play...but in a cash game, you just gotta smile a little. I wouldn't make that play everytime however (or would I?).

Another good book to read is "No-Limit Holdem' Theory and Practice". I think that this book would do you a world of good in explaining the thinking behind these kinds of plays. Although Sklansky may would read this and say "I would have folded here."

Again, I love the play.

Keep at it and good luck.

DPP LDR · #19 06-02-2007, 02:26 AM

there are so many things to input in the equation here 1st of all, how solid are your reads, 2nd of all how solid is your hand, you obviously dont want to push anyone behind you out but the only people calling after the 3rd all-in in the pot are hands that have your outs (your suit, a PP 44 or 55 or higher suited connectors9-10, j-10 that want to gamble like you?) i can see where your thinkng heck its a freeroll im getting 3-1 or so on my money maybe i can get someone else in here with my call ( im not gonna count your 1.50 raise as a raise its not going to scare anyone that was gonna call b4 that) but the bottome line is you have 5 high and your lloking to flop 2 pair or better which even then your not out of the woods against an OP most aces are almost certanly gone for wheel draws your suit may not even be live VERDICT skepticl play at best

DPP LDR · #20 06-02-2007, 02:29 AM

here is how you guage this call, your talking about less than $20 in the big picture thats not a lot. what if you were playing in a differant situation where the stakes were higher and the players were new and probably more experienced, is this a call you would make? becasue i dont think reads make a differance when your the 3rd one in the pot with 5 high........