Ed Miller/Gary Carson debate

[otis_nixon]

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For the record, Ed is not suicidal.

He's just learning the sad fact that the more success you gain, the more envious your enemies become. 'Mo money, mo problems' sort of thing...

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I don't think that's it. I think he's a pretty easy target, given that he calls himself a poker authority, but doesn't seem to be one of the top players out there (I might be wrong, he may be crushing $1,000/$2,000, I've never met the guy.)

Like Carson said at RGP, he wrote a NL book, but does he actually play NL? Has he beat even the Party $10/$20 NL over a decent sample? Or the Party $30/$60 or $50/$100? If he hasn't, then is he really an authority? To the average joe he just seems like a professional writer, not a poker authority.

I'm really just asking these questions rhetorically, I really liked SSHE and a lot of his old strategy posts. He seems like a fantaaastic guy. On the other hand, I can see why a guy like Carson wouldn't like him very much, and I don't think it has much to do with jealousy.

[Ed Miller]

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I don't think that's it. I think he's a pretty easy target, given that he calls himself a poker authority, but doesn't seem to be one of the top players out there (I might be wrong, he may be crushing $1,000/$2,000, I've never met the guy.)

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I'm a winning live cash game player up to $40-$80 or so (never really played higher), and a winning live NL player up to about $5-$10 (though I have more $2-$5 hours logged and more confidence at that level). The NPA thing is a joke started in this thread by a friend of mine before SSH came out. It shortly became a forum-wide joke, with everyone calling me the NPA, so I went with it.

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Like Carson said at RGP, he wrote a NL book, but does he actually play NL? Has he beat even the Party $10/$20 NL over a decent sample? Or the Party $30/$60 or $50/$100? If he hasn't, then is he really an authority? To the average joe he just seems like a professional writer, not a poker authority.

[/ QUOTE ]

I indeed acted as a professional writer for the new NL book. It was Sklansky's book, and I wrote most of it. That's why I'm listed second. I'm not a NL expert and I don't claim to be. David is, though, and he has a ton of NL experience over thirty years up to very high stakes games.

SSH and GSIH, however, I was the principle author, and I both wrote most of them and was the ideas man as well. I played mid-limit ($10-$20 to $30-$60) hold 'em as my sole source of income in the Seattle area and Las Vegas with considerable success before I wrote SSH.

I've never played online much because I get distracted in two seconds and generally don't enjoy it.

Again, NPA started as a joke, and I use it tongue in cheek.

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I'm really just asking these questions rhetorically

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I clarified for those who don't ask rhetorically. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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I really liked SSHE and a lot of his old strategy posts. He seems like a fantaaastic guy.

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Thanks. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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On the other hand, I can see why a guy like Carson wouldn't like him very much, and I don't think it has much to do with jealousy.

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I don't really care what Carson thinks or why.

[chicagoY]

see below.

[Ed Miller]

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It's a continuation of the effects of PC on the culture and poor Ed. He's a physics/computers guy who missed out on the totalitarian nature of feministas and gay rightists (read: gay privilege proponents). Now, as an adult, he believes the PC front and comforms to their opinions about males and heterosexuals.

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I'm not a victim shut-in. I just strongly disagree with you.

[chicagoY]

post deleted for being pointlessly off topic and flame baity.

[chicagoY]

I don't think you're a victim either. We make our own choices in life, my brother.

[uDevil]

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It's a continuation of the effects of PC on the culture....

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You, sir, are a one-trick pony.

This is the first time I've ever said this to anyone on 2+2, so please don't take it the wrong way: I don't like you.

[DesertCat]

It's pretty clear where this comes from. Gary Carson wrote a nice book on small stakes hold'em. For all the criticism of his book, at the time it was the best thing out there (much better than Lee Joneses). Gary's book played a big part in helping make me a winning player back in my RGP days (and undid some damage caused by reading Phil Hellmuths book).

Then Ed comes along and writes a much, much, better book on the exact same topic. He made me a much better player. And because of that book, he's publically eclipsed Gary, and taken away most of what little "fame" he had. And I imagine, hurt Gary in the pocketbook.

Gary has always been a little "grumpy" to put it mildly. And people on RGP have always been jealous about 2+2. The fact that this ends up with them taking shots at Ed was sadly predictable. There is nothing you can do about those people, other than ignore them, just like a nit at your table.

But don't worry, Ed. I still love you (esp. all the money you've made me). I just ordered your NL book, so you better turn me into a NL monster, baby!!! If I'm not beating Prahlad heads up in two months, I'm asking for a refund!

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Otis:

I've been listening to these type of claims and statements for years. Usually they're about me, but now Ed is a new target. It's nothing more than professional jealousy by people who simply can't compete with the book products that are available through Two Plus Two.

Let me put it to you another way, and this is nothing new since we have stated this many times over the years. If you choose to ignore the Two Plus Two library, you'll simply be left behind by those who don't. You may think this sounds arrogant, and perhaps it is, but it is also accurate.

So if you think that Ed is little more than a novice at this stuff and are more interested in the advice from some seemingly higher profile player or from someone who's making counter claims on the Internet, that's fine. You are free to make that choice and we at Two Plus Two will respect your decision. But unless you have an incredible amount of natural talent, and only a very small number of people are in this category, expect to do no better than mediocre in the games that you play, and don't be too surprised if you loose most if not all of your money.

You need to understand that any new book we bring out, and this includes No Limit Hold 'em: Theory and Practice as well as the Harrington books will be top notch, or we won't publish it. So my advice to you is to read and study any book that has Ed's name associated with it, and once you begin to understand that material and why it is formulated in the matter that it is, you'll agree with me completely.

Best wishes,
Mason

[Peter666]

Out of curiousity, what are the results of Gary Carson's poker playing career?