The feminization of todays youth

[entertainme]

[ QUOTE ]
"Walk it off."

"Rub some dirt on it."

"Stop being a pussy."

"Are you hurt, or are you injured?"

"No blood, no foul."

All phrases not used nearly enough by parents and teachers these days, IMO. They're kids---they're supposed to get split lips, smashed fingers, scuffed knees, even the occasional broken bone.

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Our home favorite, "Does it hurt? Come here. I've got a pocket knife and we'll cut it off!"

The Poker Mom

[entertainme]

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Actually, no. Most states have a duty to retreat clause regarding almost any level of aggression. But it varies.

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This is starting to change:

The Florida "Castle Doctrine" law basically does three things:

One: It establishes, in law, the presumption that a criminal who forcibly enters or intrudes into your home or occupied vehicle is there to cause death or great bodily harm, therefore a person may use any manner of force, including deadly force, against that person.

Two: It removes the "duty to retreat" if you are attacked in any place you have a right to be. You no longer have to turn your back on a criminal and try to run when attacked. Instead, you may stand your ground and fight back, meeting force with force, including deadly force, if you reasonably believe it is necessary to prevent death or great bodily harm to yourself or others. [This is an American right repeatedly recognized in Supreme Court gun cases.]

Three: It provides that persons using force authorized by law shall not be prosecuted for using such force.

It also prohibits criminals and their families from suing victims for injuring or killing the criminals who have attacked them.

Wikipedia lists 22 states with laws on the books or in process.

[xorbie]

I've read most of this thread, and I think the problem isn't necessarily being overstated, but it is definitely being misstated. What constitutes "manly" isn't completely static and can vary as gumpzilla noted, but there's definitely a core of certain values/virtues/traits that are generally agreed upon.

I think the distinction a lot of you are making isn't necessarily a man/woman distinction but basically what Nietzsche referred to as the slave/master distinction. Mediocrity is widely accepted and even encouraged implicitly by coddling children. I don't think the focus on self-esteem is wrong at all - just the opposite. Kids grow up with no self-esteem precisely because everything they do is good enough, just like everyone else around them. They don't have to struggle for much, and so there's no real way to acheive satisfaction because there's nothing to contrast "success" with.

I think appeals to manliness as a way of moving away from this are helpful but only if framed correctly. I think there's definetely a backlash against the "metrosexual" and god knows there's long been a backlash agains the "intellectual" man. People who use "being a man" to justify their actions can be proud men who want to instill these virtues in other, but they can also just be homophobic ignorant douchebags who mistreat and disrespect women.

[entertainme]

Esquire: The Problem with Boys

The State of the American Boy

14% of eighteen- to twenty-four-year-old males are high school dropouts. For females, it's only 10 percent (U. S. Census Bureau).

37% of twelfth-grade boys score below basic levels on standardized writing tests, compared with 15 percent for girls. Boys score worse on reading tests, too, across all ages (National Center for Education Statistics).

4.7% is the annual dropout rate for high school boys, up from 4.1 percent in 1990. The rates for white and black boys are now virtually identical (Census Bureau).

35% of fifteen- to seventeen-year-old boys are below the grade common for their age, compared with 26 percent for girls. The boys' figure is up from 27 percent in 1980 (Census Bureau).

5 times as many fifteen- to twenty-four-year-old boys commit suicide as girls of the same age. In 1970, the ratio was only 3:1 (Centers for Disease Control).

16% of school-age boys have been diagnosed with attention-deficit-hyperactivity disorder or a learning disability--twice the rate of girls (CDC).

12% of high school boys report being threatened or injured with a weapon on school property, compared with 7 percent for girls (CDC).

2 times as many eighteen- to twenty-nine-year-old males abuse alcohol as do females of the same age (National Institutes of Health).

42 men for every 58 women go to college now, undergrad and grad. That means one in four female students can't find a male peer to date (NCES).

34% of children are raised in households without a biological father present (Census Bureau).

16% is the decline in male voting rates in presidential elections since 1964, more than twice as sharp as the 7 percent drop for women. In the 2004 election, 56 percent of men voted, compared with 60 percent of women (Census Bureau).

95% of state and federal prisoners under the age of twenty-five are male (Department of Justice).

Newsweek: The Trouble with Boys

In elementary school, boys are two times more likely than girls to be diagnosed with learning disabilities and twice as likely to be placed in special-education classes. High-school boys are losing ground to girls on standardized writing tests. The number of boys who said they didn't like school rose 71 percent between 1980 and 2001, according to a University of Michigan study. Nowhere is the shift more evident than on college campuses. Thirty years ago men represented 58 percent of the undergraduate student body. Now they're a minority at 44 percent. This widening achievement gap, says Margaret Spellings, U.S. secretary of Education, "has profound implications for the economy, society, families and democracy."

And:

Thirty years ago feminists argued that classic "boy" behaviors were a result of socialization, but these days scientists believe they are an expression of male brain chemistry. Sometime in the first trimester, a boy fetus begins producing male sex hormones that bathe his brain in testosterone for the rest of his gestation. "That exposure wires the male brain differently," says Arthur Arnold, professor of physiological science at UCLA. How? Scientists aren't exactly sure. New studies show that prenatal exposure to male sex hormones directly affects the way children play. Girls whose mothers have high levels of testosterone during pregnancy are more likely to prefer playing with trucks to playing with dolls.

And:

One of the most reliable predictors of whether a boy will succeed or fail in high school rests on a single question: does he have a man in his life to look up to? Too often, the answer is no. High rates of divorce and single motherhood have created a generation of fatherless boys. In every kind of neighborhood, rich or poor, an increasing number of boys—now a startling 40 percent—are being raised without their biological dads.

A recent thread in the same vein.

[entertainme]

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Changing gender roles in society have everything to do with this issue, perhaps not in the popularity of soccer vs. football, but as a larger issue, absolutely.

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I believe there's been a recent trend to emasculate men in our society.

Men acting like men in no way diminishes my ability to be a strong woman. You don't have to drag one gender down to elevate the other, but we have been labeling instinctive male behavior as "bad" to our detriment.

Look at most sitcoms or commercials. In a huge percentage it's the male made out to be the buffoon. (Daddy's incapable of taking care of the kids when Mommy goes shopping!)

The genders have developed different strengths throughout the course of our history in order to give the species the best chance for survival. In spite of the change in our surroundings our basic nature has not changed, therefore these qualities are still important factors in human development.

Edit: FWIW, I don't think this trend is intentional or malicious or will even be longstanding. As a huge lumbering mass of society when we try to solve an problem we create huge organizations and bureaucracies to implement change, (e.g. equal rights for women).

Instead of standing back to see if changes have been effective they charge forth fighting the cause that birthed them. Inevitably the pendulum swings too far in the other direction before we realize we need a correction.

[guids]

[ QUOTE ]
I've read most of this thread, and I think the problem isn't necessarily being overstated, but it is definitely being misstated. What constitutes "manly" isn't completely static and can vary as gumpzilla noted, but there's definitely a core of certain values/virtues/traits that are generally agreed upon.

I think the distinction a lot of you are making isn't necessarily a man/woman distinction but basically what Nietzsche referred to as the slave/master distinction. Mediocrity is widely accepted and even encouraged implicitly by coddling children. I don't think the focus on self-esteem is wrong at all - just the opposite. Kids grow up with no self-esteem precisely because everything they do is good enough, just like everyone else around them. They don't have to struggle for much, and so there's no real way to acheive satisfaction because there's nothing to contrast "success" with.

I think appeals to manliness as a way of moving away from this are helpful but only if framed correctly. I think there's definetely a backlash against the "metrosexual" and god knows there's long been a backlash agains the "intellectual" man. People who use "being a man" to justify their actions can be proud men who want to instill these virtues in other, but they can also just be homophobic ignorant douchebags who mistreat and disrespect women.

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I wish I could have taken back my OPs wording as masculine v feminine I guess it is not the argument I wanted to look at, but more of what xorbie said. I think I equated it to masculine/feminine, becuase traditionally females were taught to be the slave, males the master, and now both sides are being taught to be slaves. I think both sexes should be taught to be masters.

[theBruiser500]

this isn't exactly the same thing but related. i think kids in our society are babied. i look at my sister who is 16 years old but has no responsibilities and does absolutely nothing, and compare her to say the girl from the book Swimming to Anartica who swam a 20 mile plus channel in record time at the age of 16, or maybe the 10 year old street vendors in poor countries that make money to support their family.

[Anacardo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I've read most of this thread, and I think the problem isn't necessarily being overstated, but it is definitely being misstated. What constitutes "manly" isn't completely static and can vary as gumpzilla noted, but there's definitely a core of certain values/virtues/traits that are generally agreed upon.

I think the distinction a lot of you are making isn't necessarily a man/woman distinction but basically what Nietzsche referred to as the slave/master distinction. Mediocrity is widely accepted and even encouraged implicitly by coddling children. I don't think the focus on self-esteem is wrong at all - just the opposite. Kids grow up with no self-esteem precisely because everything they do is good enough, just like everyone else around them. They don't have to struggle for much, and so there's no real way to acheive satisfaction because there's nothing to contrast "success" with.

I think appeals to manliness as a way of moving away from this are helpful but only if framed correctly. I think there's definetely a backlash against the "metrosexual" and god knows there's long been a backlash agains the "intellectual" man. People who use "being a man" to justify their actions can be proud men who want to instill these virtues in other, but they can also just be homophobic ignorant douchebags who mistreat and disrespect women.

[/ QUOTE ]


I wish I could have taken back my OPs wording as masculine v feminine I guess it is not the argument I wanted to look at, but more of what xorbie said. I think I equated it to masculine/feminine, becuase traditionally females were taught to be the slave, males the master, and now both sides are being taught to be slaves. I think both sexes should be taught to be masters.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here we are at last. This is exactly correct. The problem isn't 'masculinity,' it's 'manhood' in the sense of 'honorable manhood,' the neuter 'freeman,' 'Rights of Man,' etc. This is a very difficult concept to articulate in a single sitting, but to take a very specific example, this is what I hate about the notion of telling a kid that's been hit in the face to go whine to a teacher who doesn't really care and just wants these kids out of their hair ASAP, instead of kicking that little [censored] in the kneecap and ending it once and for all. It's the idea of power structures - Mommy, Daddy, Preacher, Teacher, Crossing Guard, whoever, encouraging kids to be passive creatures, to not develop true, matured powers of judgment, reason, and taste, and instead turn those over to some higher power who knows better than you and will make it all more-or-less okay in their own clunky, impersonal, unsatisfying way. To be a slave; a moral, intellectual slave.

I remember this well from my own time in school. Most kids either never see the inside of the principal's office or are there pretty much all the time; I got into trouble irregularly, and beyond the occasional fight it never had anything to do with other students or real trouble; it was always teachers. I remember my sophomore history teacher making this long, sad speech one day about it being Not What You Know But Who You Know, and standing up towards the end of it and giving her the third degree, after having to watch all these pretty young things, ponytailed heads a-noddin', already convinced how dumb they were, be told more of the same story, in lecture no less. (Lifelong White Knight complex.) 'You just don't the rules apply to you' - common refrain. No ma'am, I don't. My judgment and understanding and ethical instincts are superior to the people who wrote these. I think that's a healthy and laudable attitude for children in American public schools.

[theblackkeys]

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the soccer v football debate is stupid, you can play either sport for any number of reason, personally, i enjoy soccer more, but it is when parents keep their kids from playing because they think they will get hurt is wht makes it a problem.

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It's not a problem guids. Football and possibly soccer have high concussion rates compared to other sports. Football is the obvious number 1 in traumatic brain injuries. Traumatic brain injuries are more dangerous in children than in adults, and can affect (effect? gotdamn) development. That being said, I'm putting my kids in hockey, and any sport they want to try.

[doubLe a tom]

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Football and possibly soccer (lol) have high concussion rates compared to other sports. Football is the obvious number 1 in traumatic brain injuries. Traumatic brain injuries are more dangerous in children than in adults, and can affect (effect? gotdamn) development.

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This wasnt a problem 15-20 years ago. Then came the 90's and everybody went soft. I'm only 20 years old, but its pretty clear kids of my generation (with exceptions of course) are less "tough" than the generations before. I believe this is due to the soccer mom phenomenon. They preach having fun and doing your best, and that winning isnt important. They like to give trophies to everyone who participated, so nobody's feelings get hurt. [censored] that [censored]. GFY soccer moms, you are responsible for the downfall of the American Youth. Whores.