Can anyone fill us in on Vanessa Rousso altercation?

[Cat]

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if someone berates my play, i try to put my ego aside. occasionally i find they are correct in their assessment in how i played the hand, and their feedback helps me improve. other times, i find that their feedback points out some lack of understanding in their understanding of the game or in their understanding of how i play, which is potentially exploitable later. in either case, i can make appropriate adjustments based on their perception of my play. the result is that i tend to profit more. so, i see no reason to get upset at an opponent for needling me - especially since they just made me more money in the long run.

please note that i don't condone aaron's behavior either.

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Very well said. I used to play in a regular live cash game where one of the players would constantly berate everyone's play. When I was new to the game I actually learnt some stuff from his rants. (Cue more rants when I took his money [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] )

However - and this is a very important point which I think is lost on a lot of internet/ learned from tv/ tournament-only players - the game broke up for several months just because no one wanted to play with this obnoxious guy. He created such an unpleasant atmosphere that he scared all the fish away.

I think people who think trash talking is ok have obviously never played in a regular live game, where the aim is to keep the atmosphere light so fish will have fun, stay and lose their money.

And sadly, I think a lot of people just seem to think being rude is somehow ok generally - when it's just douchey.

End sermon [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[certifiable]

solid post innerpeace, i had a very similar conversation w/ andy black in which he expressed the same sentiments....must be a vipassana thing

[Butso]

can we get this thread back on topic plz thx
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[citanul]

last year end of day 1 we had a guy who was trying to avoid paying the bb before the day ended, the floor just stood there and called a clock on him whenever it was his turn to act. he also made the clock shorter each time. there's plenty of reasons to call a clock on someone, even if you're not in the hand.

[Arouet]

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am i the only one that understands and accepts her usage of "aggressive call?"

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I'm only on a first read and don't have it in front of me, but I think aggressive call is set out by Sklansky in NLTAP as a call in position with a lot of chips behind you. It tells the OOP raiser that you can't be pushed off the hand and are happy to build a big pot.

I may be off but I thinks that's the general idea. Any event, I'm pretty sure this is a legit term, even if I don't understand it a lick!

[skylar]

Thread is VR tried, lied and cried and Chaddy woulda been fried if he touched Rowan Atkinson's kid !

[Al Capwne]

[fleece_me]

I have played with her and she takes annoying [censored] TV Celebrity Poker Player to a new level. I am surprised no one has mentioned that this, along with the Liz Lieu incident almost guarantees she is a pathological liar. She also seems to meet a few of the criteria for sociopathic behavior (inflated view of oneself, inability to show remorse, etc).

If she is really French, it makes sense that she would have subjective realities concerning ethics and morality issues. It is my experience that products of a Socialized state either become indoctrinated with the notion that any act is justified within the context of some self-important end or they just plain don't give a [censored] about right and wrong and the consequences of their immoral behavior (in this case, lying about an incident to the point that someone else is physically threatened).

There is also a lack of street level education when it comes to most new poker types. People like Eric Molina stood to get slapped (if they were lucky) in the games I grew up playing in and potentially a lot worse.

[MrTimCaum]

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When Chad and I randomly ran into Aaron a few hours later in the hall of the Rio,

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Odds of this actually being random??

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it actually was pretty random. i had just busted out of the $3k event (i was 6th in chips going into day 2 and managed to lose all 125k in 20 minutes) and was getting my payout at the cage. aaron was with me and i was telling him how i busted, and he then told me a very brief version of the story about vanessa, only really mentioning that she got mad at him and asked "who the [censored] are you?"

then i registered for the $1500 tomorrow, and aaron borrowed $5k so he could register for the HU because he didn't have any money on him. that took another minute or so. psyduck and Alex Melnikow (not sure of his 2+2 name) showed up right as we finished, and the 4 of us headed out of the amazon room to go sweat aaron's roommate kush at the FT of the bellagio cup event.

as we were passing through the big main intersection outside the front corner of the amazon room, i saw chad and vanessa walking towards us, presumably heading back into the amazon room. as we passed each other right in front of that big goofy "wall of champions" video board, i turned my head to keep staring at them because i knew there had been words between them earlier in the day, and vanessa started tapping chad on the shoulder saying "THAT'S THE GUY." this is when chad something like "HEY BUDDY" to get aaron's attention and proceeded to start the whole incident.



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All,

Apparently according to Bond18, Mastr told him that Chad attempted to follow Aaron Been to the Bellagio to continue his attempts to fight Aaron.

Now if you continue to defend Brown at this point you are a total weirdo.

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this is kinda correct. after the floor person stepped in and aaron said "we're leaving" chad kept yelling [censored] about having aaron barred from the property. i then turned around and said "we're going to the bellagio, if you'd like to continue this there"

as we got out toward the smoking area out front, i looked back and saw that they had turned back and we're heading our way again (remember we were passing each other going in opposite directions when this started, so they had clearly turned back to follow). when we got to the taxi stand, they were about 25-30 yards behind, but they didn't follow us any further once we passed the stand and started walking towards my car.


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Whoever called a clock on her is lame.


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the DEALER called the clock, not aaron or any other player.

[ata]

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And Vanessa's response here on twoplustwo to those accusations:

"She described the way the hand went down entirely correctly until the end...I had AQ suited, I bet and re-raised the flop with what i felt was the best hand at that point, and Liz called my re-raise. When she just called and didn't push pre-flop I thought she either had QK, QJ, JJ, or 10 10 (aces and kings were not an option since she undoubtedly would have re-raised my pre flop raise when she realized action would be four ways). When she checked the turn (J), I was nervous that she boated with JJ or QJ (as she apparently did). So, I checked. The river gave me a queen. When she checked to me I had a few seconds to try and figure out how to maximize value in the hand. I figured going all in would convince her I was weak as someone with quads would probably not grossly over-bet the pot. I went all in and she went into the think tank for at least a full 3-4 minutes. During that time I got up, walked around, took off my sunglasses, tried to look as confident as possible (since that’s what bluffers would undoubtedly do in that scenario). Finally, I called the clock for two reasons. One, it had been at least 3 full minutes and I was under the assumption that it is within a player's rights to call the clock on an opponent when necessary (in fact, this happened to me numerous times during the tournament so I know I am not the only player who chooses to exercise this right...Victor Ramdin did it several times on Day 6). The second reason was simple poker psychology. It is well known that people call the clock on opponents when they are nervous and they want the opponent to fold. I knew that Liz did not know who I was, and as far as she knew I was a donkey whose boyfriend bought her in....I thought I could get away with convincing her I was weak, and enticing a call, by calling the clock. Liz chose to call at the end of the minute given to her. Now, this is the important part. She put a stack of chips in the center. But she did not say "I Call." I asked, “Did you call?” She did not answer, and in my haste to interpret her actions as a call I flipped over my cards and said "I have quads." I know these are the words I chose as I have never ever uttered them before (I have never had quads in a live event before) and I can definitely recall saying them. I also am positive those are the words I chose because I immediately wanted to take them back as I was nervous that she had not actually called yet…that I had misunderstood her actions…and that I had preemptively exposed my hand. As the pot was given to me she said, “I had Jacks.” To this, I replied, “I’m sorry then, what a cold deck, I got really lucky.” I never ever said “nice hand.” And I most certainly did not slow roll. If something I said was misheard as “nice hand,” then that is the only plausible explanation I can think of. I am not saying Liz is lying….I hope she isn’t the one who wrote that…but if she is, then I assume she misheard me. I only wish that if she did have that impression of me she would have spoken to me personally so that I could explain that that was not what I said and if that is what she heard then I am very sorry but she must have misheard me. In the confusion and stress of the situation I am not sure either one of us were thinking all that clearly. Looking back, Liz was a little stand-offish to me after that hand. I assumed it was because she was upset at having lost a pot, or even that maybe when I took the pot down I acted too excited (I thought maybe she thought I was not sensitive to her losing a big pot…which also would not have been my intentions…but given how huge the pot was I wasn’t thinking very clearly and I got caught up in the moment). Now I understand that she thought I slow-rolled her…I only hope she reads this and understands that I really did not, at least knowingly, do so. I am sorry if I did not handle any part of my reactions with Liz appropriately. As I have stated before, I admire her and her playing ability tremendously. I hope that this clears up any confusion."

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I hope people read this cuz it's [censored] hilarious.