Simple Question For Not Ready And Others

[David Sklansky]

You have stated that God does not want anyone to ever flat out say or believe that someone else will, or will not, be saved.

You have also stated that non believers cannot be saved unless they change, per your reading of the bible.

So here is my question.

If Joe Schmo tells you on his deathbed that he doesn't believe and I ask you "will he be saved" and you answer (as you say you must) "I don't know", do you answer that way

A) Because there is a possibility that Joe will change his mind the last possible second

B) Because there is a possibility that Joe lied to you

C) Because you are lying when you say you don't know, to avoid God's wrath

D) Because God is not bound by syllogisms, in this case

Non believers are not saved

Joe is a non believer

Joe will not be saved.

[JayTee]

E) Because you are lying when you say you don't know, to avoid being ostracized by those around you by telling Joe's family that he is swimming in a lake of fire and brimstone and having his teeth gnashed for eternity, and he deserves because God is just

[amplifiedsilence]

I don't really know much about what "saved" and "non believer" means, but I do know that any good religion should flaunt the fact that it is not bound by petty things like syllogisms and other mundane logical principles. Zen Buddhists meditate on things like "one hand clapping" because things like this are at the heart of every religion. Christianity in particular is full of internal contradictions that "Christians" usually try to forget or bypass, thereby losing touch with the most religious part of their beliefs and reducing their creed to a delusion. It takes doubt and faith to overcome religious contradictions, not dogma and preachers.

[Stu Pidasso]

[ QUOTE ]
You have stated that God does not want anyone to ever flat out say or believe that someone else will, or will not, be saved.

You have also stated that non believers cannot be saved unless they change, per your reading of the bible.

So here is my question.

If Joe Schmo tells you on his deathbed that he doesn't believe and I ask you "will he be saved" and you answer (as you say you must) "I don't know", do you answer that way

[/ QUOTE ]

If I was in that situation I would not answer "I don't know" I would simply say "Its not my place to judge him/her". I gave that same answer to a co-woker who asked me if I thought his wife was going to hell becuase she recently had an abortion. Its just wrong to proclaim a specific individual will (absolutely) go to hell. You can only go so far as saying certian actions lead to damnation.

Stu

[vhawk01]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You have stated that God does not want anyone to ever flat out say or believe that someone else will, or will not, be saved.

You have also stated that non believers cannot be saved unless they change, per your reading of the bible.

So here is my question.

If Joe Schmo tells you on his deathbed that he doesn't believe and I ask you "will he be saved" and you answer (as you say you must) "I don't know", do you answer that way

[/ QUOTE ]

If I was in that situation I would not answer "I don't know" I would simply say "Its not my place to judge him/her". I gave that same answer to a co-woker who asked me if I thought his wife was going to hell becuase she recently had an abortion. Its just wrong to proclaim a specific individual will (absolutely) go to hell. You can only go so far as saying certian actions lead to damnation.

Stu

[/ QUOTE ]
This entirely misses the point. He isn't asking what you would say. He knows what you would say, "I don't know" or some variant there-of. What he is asking is WHY you would say that. Do you really not know, and why do you not know?

[bills217]

A and B both seem valid to me.

Also, some believe once-saved-always-saved, so it's also possible Joe may have been a believer earlier in life and thus unable to lose his salvation (although this is a very hotly debated topic in Christian circles).

[NotReady]

[ QUOTE ]

do you answer that way


[/ QUOTE ]

In a sense God is bound by syllogisms - He is the source of logic and doesn't contradict Himself, nor does He lie. What He says He will do, He will do and so He is bound by His word.

D) is a correct syllogism but only God can apply it to someone else. Apply it to yourself, God will take care of everyone else. That's basically why I would say I don't know, though I might also add that if he doesn't repent and believe the Bible says he has no hope.

[MaxWeiss]

Or you could say she did the right thing if she wasn't ready for a kid, and praise her for having the courage to do something so difficult and heartbreaking. But I don't know the circumstances--it could have been a horrible thing; I don't know.

And you never got back to me on my last PM.

[Siegmund]

I tend to think the syllogism D is not valid, as its first premise is not valid -- at least in some Christian traditions, simply not believing is different from actively rejecting (but both are 'nonbelievers'), and in some there is a place for "virtuous nonbelievers" to do a little time in purgatory and be set right. There is nothing STOPPING god from saving whomever he pleases.

[David Sklansky]

Your answer translates to "I'm lying when I say I don't know".