Morality and Happiness

tomdemaine · #1 12-12-2006, 03:03 AM

This got no play in the Sklansky forum but might generate some interesting discussion here.

Should maximizing ones own personal happiness be a persons only goal in life or should a person give weight to things external to their own happiness equation?

For example should a person try to be as moral a person as they can and then maximize their happiness or choose for their level of morality that which maximizes their happiness?

Max (U) = (..., morality, ...)

or

Max (U) = (...)|morality

Sephus · #2 12-12-2006, 03:08 AM

the "should" needs to come with an "if..." for me to answer the question.

luckyme · #3 12-12-2006, 03:15 AM

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Should maximizing ones own personal happiness be a persons only goal in life or ...

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I seem to be missing the 'goal' gene. But I've the lactose one !
Hard to see how we can do much that is not happiness oriented. Even if we put our socks on thinking "I'm going to do 3 things today that'll make me miserable" it could be argued that being miserable makes me happy.

Not to be confused with thinking that our 'choosing happiness' actually makes us happy.

luckyme

tomdemaine · #4 12-12-2006, 03:21 AM

But people do stop themselves from doing certain things that are enjoyable because of a moral code correct or not? If you could steal money and noone find out would you? If not is it because the guilt etc would make you unhappy or because of an abstract "morality" that you seek to either maximize or keep above a certain level.

luckyme · #5 12-12-2006, 03:28 AM

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But people do stop themselves from doing certain things that are enjoyable because of a moral code correct or not? If you could steal money and noone find out would you? If not is it because the guilt etc would make you unhappy or because of an abstract "morality" that you seek to either maximize or keep above a certain level.

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what would make you think that 'behaving morally' doesn't make some people happier than stealing some ones gum?
I just tried laying sideways to see if I could conjure up a situation where somebody does something, X, all the while believing that Y would make them happier.
Again, not that they're right, and they often overweight short-term satisfaction, but they don't choose X for it's misery value.

luckyme

tomdemaine · #6 12-12-2006, 03:35 AM

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what would make you think that 'behaving morally' doesn't make some people happier than stealing some ones gum?

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Nothing, that then is the first option where the extent of your morality is that level which makes you happiest given everything else.

luckyme · #7 12-12-2006, 03:56 AM

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what would make you think that 'behaving morally' doesn't make some people happier than stealing some ones gum?

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Nothing, that then is the first option where the extent of your morality is that level which makes you happiest given everything else.

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I'm trying to come up with a situation where a person makes the choice that they believe will increase their misery quotient. I'm not saying there isn't one, but it's eluding me right now.

luckyme

Paragon · #8 12-12-2006, 04:10 AM

I think the conscience is the evolutionary device to combine morality and satisfaction. Doesn't it just feel good to be honest and generous, even anonymously?

I used to cynically think that a conscience was a weakness that restricted freedom by creating guilt. Maybe you'd want everyone to have a conscience (so they'll be nice) except for you. Instead, now I think it is easy to see how a conscience is beneficial even for the individual, by allowing someone to easily experience satisfaction.

tomdemaine · #9 12-12-2006, 04:16 AM

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what would make you think that 'behaving morally' doesn't make some people happier than stealing some ones gum?

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Nothing, that then is the first option where the extent of your morality is that level which makes you happiest given everything else.

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I'm trying to come up with a situation where a person makes the choice that they believe will increase their misery quotient. I'm not saying there isn't one, but it's eluding me right now.

luckyme

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How about something along the lines of falling on a grenade in a crowd of school kids? Would you argue that the knowledge of self sacrifice in the last instant of your life makes you happy enough to counteract the act itself?

chezlaw · #10 12-12-2006, 05:03 AM

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what would make you think that 'behaving morally' doesn't make some people happier than stealing some ones gum?

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Nothing, that then is the first option where the extent of your morality is that level which makes you happiest given everything else.

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I'm trying to come up with a situation where a person makes the choice that they believe will increase their misery quotient. I'm not saying there isn't one, but it's eluding me right now.

luckyme

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How about something along the lines of falling on a grenade in a crowd of school kids? Would you argue that the knowledge of self sacrifice in the last instant of your life makes you happy enough to counteract the act itself?

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The two maximising happiness reasons for that sort of behavior are:

1) being very unhappy in your future life if you don't do it.

2) maximising happiness in your past life by being the sort of person who would throw yourself on the grenade if the situation arose (or at least believing yourself to be that sort of person and discovering you were right).

I think its mainly the second.

chez