25NL - TP for stacks

Frosteater · #1 08-10-2007, 08:53 AM

Early in the session, no stats yet and I didn't have any reads that could help here. FWIW that typically means that villain didn't seem to be good (limp-calling, minraising, etc), but not that bad it's standing out (like calling every bet regardless of his hand). If that's of interest, I started that session rather fast, tried to play my position and raised a lot. This hand came up before the 25 hands mark, though, so it's probably way to early to actually have an image.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|saw showdown

Hero ($25)
SB ($8.20)
BB ($5.70)
UTG ($20.55)
MP ($29.30)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls $0.25, 1 fold, Hero raises to $1.25, SB calls $1.15, 1 fold, UTG calls $1.

Flop: ($4) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $3.25, SB folds, UTG calls $3.25.

Turn: ($10.50) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $7.5, UTG raises to $16.05, Hero calls $8.55.

River: ($42.60) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)

Final Pot: $42.60

Okay, so I know top pair isn't the best hand to push your chips in the middle with, wouldn't be with top kicker and certainly isn't with a mediocre one, either. Especially when your opponent check/calls the flop to check/raise the turn.

Now my problem here is, I have to call $8.55 for a $34.05 pot, so as long as villain is doing this with a weaker queen (like QhTh) or as a bluff (like ... never), a call here is an option - if I'm good one out of five times, if I got that concept right. As a side question, don't we have to be good here one out of two times, since this is essentially a HU all-in?

Apparently I managed to get myself into a horrible situation again and I could really use advice on how to avoid it. For this hand I'd say it's a simple check behind on the turn and call on the river, depending on the bet. But what if the 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] was a 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]? That would be quite a drawy board, would checking behind really be an option?

Poker's Busmalis · #2 08-10-2007, 09:01 AM

I never check that turn, they call flops with A7 and such very often, and that check/raise on the turn is many times a frustrated play (he thinks you're bluffing or something). And as it's only 8.55 more, you basically have to call that shove, he's on a missed flush draw / A7 / QT enough times.

Maybe he has a set or something, but donks in micro stakes do this with crap all the time.

BUT if you want to avoid this situation, just check the turn and fold if the flush gets there and call if it doesn't (of course depending on the size of the bet etc.)

Fisherman23 · #3 08-10-2007, 09:18 AM

Post deleted by Fisherman23

Splossy · #4 08-10-2007, 09:26 AM

It doesn't get to the river, UTG went all in on the turn.

I don't mind the button raise as a steal to punish the limper but you don't wanna play the rest of the hand against unknowns as if you were pot building with a monster. You're not protecting against draws on that flop so no need to bet so big. Check the turn and call a small river bet in case you induced a bluff

Sniped · #5 08-10-2007, 09:26 AM

[ QUOTE ]
How to avoid these situations. The simple answer is to fold QJ, KJ, KT etc. preflop. These are all long term losers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Opening a pot from early position with QJ, KJ, KT maybe long term losers, but playing on the button against a limper they are not.

Fisherman23 · #6 08-10-2007, 09:39 AM

I misread you post but I'm still not crazy about getting it all in w/ QJ...his line smells like 44

tripdeuces · #7 08-10-2007, 10:16 AM

an unknown who limps UTG has called your flop bet and check raised turn. Without a read this is a fold on the turn. Consider check the turn for pot control so you can get to show down for smaller if you plan on calling that turn check raise anyway.

skibbel · #8 08-10-2007, 10:17 AM

i cb here 100% without good reads.

Perk76 · #9 08-10-2007, 02:05 PM

I am in the check the turn for pot control and call a medium bet on the river. Value out of worse hands plus you dont get blown off the hand. The board is not flush/st8 drawy all that much, so its not mandatory to bet turn.

Your trying to win a bunch of these as small pots, not large pots with TPMK. IMO

skiller3 · #10 08-10-2007, 02:18 PM

This was played fine. Without reads you are forced to lead both flop and turn, and since his shove isn't that much more it's a called. If he had that extra $5 from buying in full left behind then you might have to dump it (possibly).