Intentional miscalling of hand at showdown

growlers · #1 10-02-2007, 04:32 AM

Question: At Red Rock there is one female limit player regular who consistantly miscalls her hand at showdown. I have played with her many times, and she does many other angle-shooting things like intentionally checking out of turn, etc so I know for 100% fact it is not just her "trying to be cute". Example: I saw her once intentionally not post her BB even after prompting- push her cards over the line "mucking", then after the dealer told her again it was her BB she "reluctantly" posted and of course had pocket AA. I bring this up only to assert that I think all of this is intentional.

So anyway, she will constantly triumphantly throw her hand down at showdown immediately and announce "flush" or "straight" when she has a busted draw.
So lets assume a board of 9d 10d Qs 6s 8h - she calls down out of SB headsup and river goes check-check - and she truimphantly throws down her 2d3d and says "flush".

Situation 1: opponent turbo mucks and cards are not retrievable
Situation 2: opponent turbo mucks but cards are easily retrievable - but say touching muck slightly
Situation 3: opponent puts cards face down just over the line
Situation 4: opponent beats her to death with his chair but accidentally drops card on floor while doing so
What would floor do in above situations?

Also,
What is the dealers role when she does this? I've never seen any dealer give a warning to her for this. Let's say opponent turbomucks and no one is objecting to her behavior.

[Note I am was not involved in any of the above situations - I know what she is doing and so it not an issue for me personally, but of course it annoys me that someone is blatently angle-shooting.]

chucky · #2 10-02-2007, 04:45 AM

she automatically loses the pot to whoever was left at showdown. Miscalling your hands intentionally should require a player to be banned. It is understood that occasionally players miscall their hands, but players are not required to call their hands in the first place so continued miscalling needs to be given tough remedies.

growlers · #3 10-02-2007, 04:52 AM

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she automatically loses the pot to whoever was left at showdown.

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I don't want to sway the discussion, but this was my impression as well. However, when I brought this up to the floor away from the table as I was leaving (I didn't identify the player) as a "hypothetical", he told me it was the player's responsibility to protect their hand so the angle-shooter gets the pot in cases 1 and 2, and that in case 3 where the cards are just a few inches in front of him - the dealer should state what the hand actually is and give a chance for the player to flip his cards back over.

I didn't ask about situation 4.

lippy · #4 10-02-2007, 05:05 AM

I had an old regular do this to my friend when I was drunking it up at 2/4 Canterbury. He called something like flush when my buddy had top pair and tabled his hand.

I told my buddy there was no flush out there. He tabled his hand and scooped. The old regular told me to let my friend play his own hand, I told him something of the effect of, "don't [censored] angle shoot douchebag." I got a stern talking to by the floor, and he ignored the old guy's angle.

It was pretty funny.

chesspain · #5 10-02-2007, 07:23 AM

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I had an old regular do this to my friend when I was drunking it up at 2/4 Canterbury. He called something like flush when my buddy had top pair and tabled his hand.

I told my buddy there was no flush out there. He tabled his hand and scooped. The old regular told me to let my friend play his own hand, I told him something of the effect of, "don't [censored] angle shoot douchebag." I got a stern talking to by the floor, and he ignored the old guy's angle.

It was pretty funny.

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If both players had already tabled their hands (it wasn't clear from your description above), then cards speak. Consequently, I would be extremely concerned about a floorperson who either doesn't realize this, or does know this but is actively attempting to protect the interests of an angleshooting regular.

If your buddy had not yet tabled his hand, you shouldn't have said "There is no flush out there," or made any comments about if he should call or fold. However, I assume you have the right to call out any tabled hand--meaning you could have said "He has a pair of jacks."

Javanewt · #6 10-02-2007, 09:30 AM

I'm sure other players hate me for this, but if I were at the table, I'd say, "There's no flush possible," even if I wasn't in the hand. I do this because I play 1/2NL, and most of those players don't know what's going on. I hate to see people taken advantage of, and I do something about it whenever I can. If I were playing at a level where I thought people should be able to take care of themselves, I wouldn't say a word. However, people who are just learning deserve a little help and deserve not to have people trying to cheat them.

I'd do everything I could to let the table, dealer, and floor know what this woman was up to. It's pathetic.

inyourface · #7 10-02-2007, 05:22 AM

If it doesn't bother you to take her down a bit just say at the table at showdown she's done this in the past. Surely if she gets called out on it the whole table will be more careful in future if they play again with her.

I know you aren't the poker police but it clearly bothers you?

chesspain · #8 10-02-2007, 07:11 AM

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I know you aren't the poker police but it clearly bothers you?

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It would bother me to be at the table with a angleshooting cheater. Why wouldn't it bother you?

inyourface · #9 10-02-2007, 10:37 AM

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I know you aren't the poker police but it clearly bothers you?

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It would bother me to be at the table with a angleshooting cheater. Why wouldn't it bother you?

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Lol you have misquoted me, my whole reply was suggesting it bothered me enough to call the lady out over it. I was just saying in my last sentence I didn;t know whether the OP wa the type to speak out or just look after his own interests.

DesertCat · #10 10-02-2007, 10:20 AM

[ QUOTE ]
If it doesn't bother you to take her down a bit just say at the table at showdown she's done this in the past. Surely if she gets called out on it the whole table will be more careful in future if they play again with her.

I know you aren't the poker police but it clearly bothers you?

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, this bitch is bad for the game. I would call her out every time she pulled a move. For example, next time she pulls the big blind 'trick', I'd tell the table that last time she did this she had AA. Everytime she calls out her hand I'd say "careful, she has a habit of mis-calling her hands". Do it enough and hopefully she'll leave. Or she'll go on tilt and try to beat you out of pots, so value bet her until she's broke.