We win (AP Scandal v. 27)

[Redgrape]

I was contemplating the whole chip dumping thing to last night, I think the only reason we'd see chip dumping is if AP wasn't directly involved, which would probably add further evidence to implicating Scott Tom. Although, this is going to be revealed in their statement obviously.

[apefish]

There are many ways this could have happened- "rogue person in lower levels at AP" isn't going to fly with us.
There was too much stonewalling and too much coverup relating to high profile accounts for that to be the case.
It doesn't have to be the people whose names are on the accounts- but it was definitely someone with deep access.

I'll remain cautiously optimistic they won't be absurd with their official position when they finally have one.

[Dudd]

[ QUOTE ]
Trying to cover it up at first is a natural reaction. It's what i'd do if I was in charge. You can't seriously hold companies to a standard of immediately admitting something which is damaging to them.


[/ QUOTE ]

What? Yes, yes I can. If a company cheats me and we find out about it, the least standard I should hold them to is to admit to wrongdoing. It's like a criminal who pleads the 5th, just because he has the right to do it doesn't mean that I should trust him with my kids when he gets a guilty verdict back and then tries to be contrite to save face.

[fnord_too]

[ QUOTE ]
Potslammer is just a 2+2 spammer account and is not actually an account on AP.

Re: KGC - You guys should understand what the KGC is. They essentially have three relevant businesses/hats: Absolute/UB [the upper management is very intimately connected with Chief Norton], their formerly toothless audit group that audits everyone but is now very quickly growing a spine (employing Gaming Associates to audit AP), and a big server farm that happens to host Stars and a bunch of other places. Being located on the server farm in and of itself doesn't mean a site did anything wrong, because that farm may be the most convenient place to run a site from in the world. Further, at this point, I have reason to believe that there are so many alarm bells going off at KGC that they won't be asleep at the switch again for a very long time - they didn't like this little surprise any more than we did, since it's a nasty hit to all their core businesses.

In other words, Stars etc. have nothing to do with this, but will now be closely scrutinized by people with a lot more at stake, anyhow.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think if the heads of KGC have any sense, they will throw AP under the bus if there is any truth that the scandal goes all the way up to upper management (and I think the likelihood that is the case is reasonably high). If they can look at this objectively, they have to know that AP is now damaged goods, and if the corruption involves upper management and wasn't just an inside job they likely won't be able to recover much.

OTOH the longer they refrain from that after they have completed their investigation, the higher chance sites like Stars will just stop doing business with them at all. That is, as Andathar suggests, they have to worry about serious impact to their other business units. And if AP is going to lose value, the other units take on much greater importance.

Now, whether or not they have the wisdom to do this, I can't say. So far we have seen AP's comic failure in containing and controlling the situation, which doesn't speak well of the overarching organization at all. The smart thing to do is to distance KGC from AP, which starts with a cold, impersonal investigation that is brutally honest in its findings. I guess we have a week or two before we know how the investigation turns out (if we are lucky). This all probably depends too much on whether KGC believes clients like PokerStars will go ahead and sever relationships in order to avoid being tainted by the association.

[N 82 50 24]

I'm kinda tempted to post what I know, but I'm not going to. I want to see if AP tries to lie again or doesn't really come clean in their statement.

[ChrisV]

[ QUOTE ]
If a company cheats me and we find out about it

[/ QUOTE ]

That's my point. What if AP had internally uncovered this cheating, without any of us having noticed it? Do you honestly expect them to issue a press release saying HAY GUYS OUR SYSTEMS WERE COMPROMISED AND OUR PLAYERS WERE CHEATED OUT OF HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS?

There are points at which is is understandable that companies want to keep damaging information under wraps. We are now beyond that point. The information we have about AP is so damning that any attempt at a coverup will lead us to the logical conclusion that the truth is so horrible that it can't be admitted under any circumstances.

[KurtSF]

From the sticky in this thread:

[ QUOTE ]
13)The IP associated with the observer in #10 turns out to be a residential cable modem registered to Scott Tom, AP's President as of 2005.

[/ QUOTE ]

Scott Tom was directly involved with AP 6 months ago, and possibly still involved today though from behind the scenes.

So yes, we don't know who was on the accounts, but we know they were on them at Scott Tom's house (or office). We know Scott Tom was management at AP. Claims that this does not involve AP management are bogus.

[censored] coverup.

[mntbikr15]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm kinda tempted to post what I know, but I'm not going to. I want to see if AP tries to lie again or doesn't really come clean in their statement.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh just do it, the last thing they deserve is any sort of respect or courtesy here.

Edit- I really have no clue about slander laws if it turns out to be wrong, so ill save comment

[KurtSF]

Hold off Nat. We've got them by the [censored].

[0evg0]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Potslammer is just a 2+2 spammer account and is not actually an account on AP.

Re: KGC - You guys should understand what the KGC is. They essentially have three relevant businesses/hats: Absolute/UB [the upper management is very intimately connected with Chief Norton], their formerly toothless audit group that audits everyone but is now very quickly growing a spine (employing Gaming Associates to audit AP), and a big server farm that happens to host Stars and a bunch of other places. Being located on the server farm in and of itself doesn't mean a site did anything wrong, because that farm may be the most convenient place to run a site from in the world. Further, at this point, I have reason to believe that there are so many alarm bells going off at KGC that they won't be asleep at the switch again for a very long time - they didn't like this little surprise any more than we did, since it's a nasty hit to all their core businesses.

In other words, Stars etc. have nothing to do with this, but will now be closely scrutinized by people with a lot more at stake, anyhow.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think if the heads of KGC have any sense, they will throw AP under the bus if there is any truth that the scandal goes all the way up to upper management (and I think the likelihood that is the case is reasonably high). If they can look at this objectively, they have to know that AP is now damaged goods, and if the corruption involves upper management and wasn't just an inside job they likely won't be able to recover much.

OTOH the longer they refrain from that after they have completed their investigation, the higher chance sites like Stars will just stop doing business with them at all. That is, as Andathar suggests, they have to worry about serious impact to their other business units. And if AP is going to lose value, the other units take on much greater importance.

Now, whether or not they have the wisdom to do this, I can't say. So far we have seen AP's comic failure in containing and controlling the situation, which doesn't speak well of the overarching organization at all. The smart thing to do is to distance KGC from AP, which starts with a cold, impersonal investigation that is brutally honest in its findings. I guess we have a week or two before we know how the investigation turns out (if we are lucky). This all probably depends too much on whether KGC believes clients like PokerStars will go ahead and sever relationships in order to avoid being tainted by the association.

[/ QUOTE ]

posts by fnord_too do not disappoint